/pt/ – Petrarchan

great idea. I have always wanted to learn more about the indigenous of the Americas and haven't got around to it. has anyone straight up read popol vuh or other such documents? i find it sad there are very, very few direct sources for those civilizations without very many practicing, surviving descendants. on the other hand, i live in the american southwest and went to a pow wow not too long ago, and i found it fascinating to see traditional regalia and dances still thriving. i highly recommend it, if there's any "open to the public" type events for any other you other anons in indian country.

Pre-Columbians civilizations fill me with unease. These cultures feel very foreign. I once read Atomik Aztex, it was nice but it added confusion. Quipu is fascinating. That's it, that's all I know about these cultures. I cannot contribute any more to this thread.

someone please share youtube lectures on the subject if there are any good ones out there

>>9979

Pre-Columbians civilizations fill me with unease. These cultures feel very foreign. I once read Atomik Aztex, it was nice but it added confusion. Quipu is fascinating. That's it, that's all I know about these cultures. I cannot contribute any more to this thread.

1) atomik aztek looks interesting lol. 2) Quipu is very cool. my only personal knowledge of it, though i don't think it's connected to the Inca form of it, is that the southwestern Pueblos used knotted cord to silently communicate the coming of the Pueblo Revolt (the only successful North American revolt against conquistadors iirc). it was very interesting to find out about such a simple but powerful form of symbolic communication.

>>9983

>>9979 1) atomik aztek looks interesting lol. 2) Quipu is very cool. my only personal knowledge of it, though i don't think it's connected to the Inca form of it, is that the southwestern Pueblos used knotted cord to silently communicate the coming of the Pueblo Revolt (the only successful North American revolt against conquistadors iirc). it was very interesting to find out about such a simple but powerful form of symbolic communication.

> is that the southwestern Pueblos used knotted cord to silently communicate Yes, this is what I know about it. It's like McKenzie's Bibliography and the idea that a lot of things can be considered as texts such as landscapes in Australian Aboriginal culture. Writing has become the dominant form of asynchronous communication but there are so many others. Savant-Artists enjoy creating fake languages, but none have tried to create other forms of writing as far as I know.

At the risk of peddling the noble savage narrative, it's always interesting to see how shocked the Spaniards were by the amount of free time and leisure that the indigenous enjoyed. From de Quesada's diary: "They have divided the months and the year in a very deliberate way; the first 10 days of the month they spend eating a plant they call hayo (coca)... after these days, having cleansed themselves of the hayo, they spend another 10 days on their farms and estates, and the remaining 10 days of the month they spend at home, conversing with their wives and enjoying themselves with them... They are a people who love to sing and dance in their own way, and these are their pleasures"

>>9988

>>9983 > is that the southwestern Pueblos used knotted cord to silently communicate Yes, this is what I know about it. It's like McKenzie's Bibliography and the idea that a lot of things can be considered as texts such as landscapes in Australian Aboriginal culture. Writing has become the dominant form of asynchronous communication but there are so many others. Savant-Artists enjoy creating fake languages, but none have tried to create other forms of writing as far as I know.

Interesting topic, I don't know anything about this Bibliography. I find the Aboriginals very intriguing though, have always wanted to learn more about Dream Time. >Savant-Artists enjoy creating fake languages... This idea reminded me of the Voynich manuscript, but I guess that is still in the realm of "new written language" and not "new method of communicating".

>>10036

>>9988 Interesting topic, I don't know anything about this Bibliography. I find the Aboriginals very intriguing though, have always wanted to learn more about Dream Time. >Savant-Artists enjoy creating fake languages... This idea reminded me of the Voynich manuscript, but I guess that is still in the realm of "new written language" and not "new method of communicating".

>more about Dream Time Anon, there isn't much to a people who invented the stick. I'm not trying to be harsh but they even have the word 'dream' in their language. They're fascinating as an archaic hominid, but that's about it. Don't look into statistics about australian abos if you want to keep your rose tented glasses on.

>>10040

>>10036 >more about Dream Time Anon, there isn't much to a people who invented the stick. I'm not trying to be harsh but they even have the word 'dream' in their language. They're fascinating as an archaic hominid, but that's about it. Don't look into statistics about australian abos if you want to keep your rose tented glasses on.

>but they even *but they do NOT even

>>10040

>>10036 >more about Dream Time Anon, there isn't much to a people who invented the stick. I'm not trying to be harsh but they even have the word 'dream' in their language. They're fascinating as an archaic hominid, but that's about it. Don't look into statistics about australian abos if you want to keep your rose tented glasses on.

sorry to hear you think that way, i don't really think i have rose tinted glasses on. i am interested in their beliefs regardless of their people's crime rates or what have you.

I've been looking into the Tawantinsuyu (Inca empire) and Andean societies in general. The thing that's surprised me the most is their production system, the "vertical archipelago" (John Murra). Basically, the ayllus from the puna (the upper regions of the Andes) sent "mitmaqkuna" to "mitmaq" or colonies. This way, by maintaining links of reciprocity, they were able to access to the products needed for their subsistence from the four ecological niches.

>>10040

>>10036 >more about Dream Time Anon, there isn't much to a people who invented the stick. I'm not trying to be harsh but they even have the word 'dream' in their language. They're fascinating as an archaic hominid, but that's about it. Don't look into statistics about australian abos if you want to keep your rose tented glasses on.

> They're fascinating as an archaic hominid, but that's about it. So incredibly, unbelievably, lose-your-entire-weekend-on-wikipedia fascinating?

>>10046

I've been looking into the Tawantinsuyu (Inca empire) and Andean societies in general. The thing that's surprised me the most is their production system, the "vertical archipelago" (John Murra). Basically, the ayllus from the puna (the upper regions of the Andes) sent "mitmaqkuna" to "mitmaq" or colonies. This way, by maintaining links of reciprocity, they were able to access to the products needed for their subsistence from the four ecological niches.

In Hawaii, specifically I know on the Big Island, the mountain dwelling tribes and the coast dwelling tribes would conduct fairly essential trade with one another. The production and agriculture of those peoples I find to be very interesting too because almost all of it stems from their Polynesian ancestors deciding to take all their vital crops and animals with them on boats lol. Like I can't imagine the thought process of "well, I suppose we'll sail in these voyaging canoes until we hit land, let's take the taro with us". In hindsight it makes perfect sense.

I have tried to learn Quechua in the past to read "Apu Inka Atawallpaman" (Arguedas translated it to Spanish); moreover, I think it sounds beautiful (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_DtKXDXLFY, for example). However, I was never able to find learning material and, as I am a reading-based language learner, so to speak, I never made great progress. Has anyone tried learning any other indigenous languages?

I'm trying to find an online copy of Nathan Wachtel's "La vision des vaincus..." in its original language. If anyone could share it, i'd be grateful.

>>10113

I'm trying to find an online copy of Nathan Wachtel's "La vision des vaincus..." in its original language. If anyone could share it, i'd be grateful.

Here is an article from the same guy (probably a chapter from his book, or a proto version of the book) www.persee.fr/doc/ahess_0395-2649_1967_num_22_3_421550

>>10114

>>10113 Here is an article from the same guy (probably a chapter from his book, or a proto version of the book) www.persee.fr/doc/ahess_0395-2649_1967_num_22_3_421550

Thank you for taking the time to look it up. It not being the complete book is not a big issue, as I just want to familiarize myself with his research work. I thought his lecture "Histoire et anthropologie des sociétés méso-et sud-américaines" (available on Youtube) was a great introduction to the development of contemporary studies on pre-Columbian civilizations (markedly "ethnohistoric", I guess).

www.jstor.org/stable/40255983