/pt/ – Petrarchan

>>9961 >English We speak it >History They're dead! >Math We have calculators >Spanish We have Dora

>>9961 I don't think any of these disprove or understand where OP is thinking. >increasing age Yes, average age continues to go up, but we are currently in a glut of retirement-aged citizens who are still healthy and still in the workforce. They own most of the assets, the most liquidity, and they assume an almost overwhelming share of the vote (American here, but I doubt it's much different in other advanced Western democracies). So the elderly have more power and have better health than ever, so they'll be around even longer and longer. >increasing complexity As human societies advance they get more complex and our current way of life is built on a complex global chain of supply with a just in time model. What you want might be simple, but how it gets to you is incredibly complicated and the cost of a human life to society has risen tremendously. >increasing alienation Freedom does not exclude alienation, IMO it leads to even more alienation. >increasing comfort yeah true >decreasing vitality This one I'm less sure about and it just depends on how you look at it. I suspect most people who talk about decreased vitality are speaking from a romantic or Nietzschean standpoint which is illustrative as a philosophy of life but obviously not correct. The past was not full of common Übermenschen and even the elite were far from the Übermensch that I imagine most people imagine. The drudgery of daily life and the lack of nutrition wore the average human down into physical misery, the prevailing philosophies were of servility to power and God, etc. etc. It is undeniable that the potential of the human body has never been higher, modern Olympians really are the Übermenschen that could match Achilles, even the average human can achieve incredible strength and physique through training and proper nutrition, etc etc. However, there is definitely a drain on the vitality of life that I believe is observable. For one, people are no longer self sufficient, everything in life is outsourced and your average citizen does not know anything about the world beyond their immediate drives and pleasures. Sperm rates and testosterone levels are down, whatever that means. IDK this section is too long, I hope others have more to say. >decreasing fear Fear might be the wrong word, but paranoia certainly fits. >increasing awareness I think OP is referring to global awareness. Like knowledge of the effects of war in one region on famine in the other and the effects of both of those on the consumer in our world. Not to mention the psychological awareness of global instability, real or imagined, and the awareness of the second-order effects of our lifestyle and costs it inflicts on the environment or other humans. In my own life I notice an all-consuming self awareness that leads to decision paralysis or surrender to whatever Fate has in store for me. I imagine that can be extrapolated to the broader community. >decreasing pleasure IDK what OP is thinking here, access to pleasure is obviously much easier and much more potent than ever before. Perhaps they're thinking that the infinite pleasure we have access to only reduces its potency when we don't have any self-control over it. IDK!

i guess i should've been clearer that i meant this primarily from the cultural/artistic perspective where we can trace a development from cave paintings to modern paintings that may look like cave paintings but are operating on a different level of textual complexity and are motivated by very different concerns. like we could say that art has often been a response to fear of all -> fear/hatred/love of god -> destruction of god -> now what which is maybe similar to the psychoanalytic perspective of fear of all -> fear/hatred/love of parental object -> disillusionment with parental object -> now what and was wondering about Learnable Lessons. i'm least interested in society but i would say i'm assuming something "close enough" to post-scarcity at a large enough time scale. frankly i think a lot of us are there. i have felt "now what" my first night out the pokey >>9961 what paths would you suggest for others to lower complexity/alienation in day-to-day life as it goes on. my primary concerns are relational there are more of them. >>9965 vitality i mostly mean nitty gritty stuff like how we all get slower. at running.

>>9965 Ah I didn't understand OP then. I am a bit wary of such generalizations: we always posit there are those other humans blindly following the Market but in reality everyone is a mixed bag. It's homo œconomicus all over again, just another fiction born out of statistical KPIs and average, masking reality. Thinking in generalities feels smarter/truer, but it is the best way to never act imo.

i guess i should've been clearer that i meant this primarily from the cultural/artistic perspective where we can trace a development from cave paintings to modern paintings that may look like cave paintings but are operating on a different level of textual complexity and are motivated by very different concerns. like we could say that art has often been a response to fear of all -> fear/hatred/love of god -> destruction of god -> now what which is maybe similar to the psychoanalytic perspective of fear of all -> fear/hatred/love of parental object -> disillusionment with parental object -> now what and was wondering about Learnable Lessons. i'm least interested in society but i would say i'm assuming something "close enough" to post-scarcity at a large enough time scale. frankly i think a lot of us are there. i have felt "now what" my first night out the pokey >>9961 what paths would you suggest for others to lower complexity/alienation in day-to-day life as it goes on. my primary concerns are relational there are more of them. >>9965 vitality i mostly mean nitty gritty stuff like how we all get slower. at running.

>>9970 > neurotic competition with others and self Notes from Underground is from 1864

>>9973 true, though i think Dostoevsky was a bit of a heralder in describing that realm (i mean he uniquely identified something which was not so common then). i also feel like i made a mistake thinking in terms of Dickens / 18-19th century, which hold a lot of water with our times and thought and foreran our problems now. also, notes from the underground, while describing something of the signs and symptoms ascribed to the lonely young man / society's untermensch, has been eclipsed by the intensity of today's neuroses. but i don't think that there is any way a severance between the problems of the past and now.

>>10170 Maybe I’m just missing something, but the pro-AI capitalists are comically shortsighted. It’s over bro! You’re getting nationalized!

>>10170 There isn't any already? >>10171 I do believe they're mostly high on their own produce but the full cyberpunk scenario remains plausible.

>>10170 There isn't any already? >>10171 I do believe they're mostly high on their own produce but the full cyberpunk scenario remains plausible.