One, I don't know why I am writing this here, and two I don't know what I expect to come from it. Throughout my life, a nagging feeling has followed me, namely that of "unreality." I don't like that term, because it seems medicalizing to me, like I have a disorder or problem (which is probably true in some way, because I don't think most people are gripped by this), but it's the closest thing I've found to the idea felt within a sensation of feeling like one is not real. Without a label, I can only articulate brief and vague suggestions, which are routinely dismissed or misunderstood, and I'll admit it's nobody's fault but mine because I'm no good at describing this. It's as if I'm just a recording, playing through someone else's life, or that I am in a dream, about to wake up. Sometimes this feeling is brief, just a few seconds, sometimes it's dominating and I can't shake it. Sometimes I forget about it, in the heat of passion, especially anger or wrath, but it'll come back eventually. Sometimes I embrace it, because if it's true that everything's an illusion, then what's the point of fear? and sometimes it causes me to tremble in fear, because I don't want my life to shatter and fall away, I love its sensations and twists and turns. I think sometimes there's another world out there, where I'll wake up, and this one will vanish like the whispers of dreams in the morning. Or it'll just be one big cosmic DMT machine elf joke. And while I think I did fry my head a little with psychedelic drugs, this feeling has been with me for longer than my drug dabbling. I told my mom about this one time when I was a child and she told me I was on that computer too much (which was true). I figure there's nothing to do but find a favorite cope for this, something I think I've done without intention, such as pursuing literature, philosophy, and so on, trying to move my perspective, feel like everything is "natural", that this isn't a genetic heritage of madness rearing its ugly head (which is one of my greatest fears). And what's to be done anyway? It's a feeling, nothing more, so why does it vex me and cause my thinking mind to want to quench it, understand it, even tame it and use it to my advantage by fighting back against other more material anxieties? This should go into my diary, but I think I really just want to echo it into the void and valley of the internet, which is probably the instigator of this whole mess. Here's a psychological insight: I dwell often on Nietzsche's metaphor in the Use and Abuse of History, when he says man envies the grazing cow because they cannot even fathom psychological trouble, cosmic distress. I wish that were the case, and if I am to just be vaporized and really one day wake up (or go insane), I would not have the burden of remembering sanity.
Anonymous :
46 days ago :
No.9704
>>9725
>>9704
Sometimes it's random, sometimes it's considering something that contradicts life, such as death.
>>9713
I don't know, that's what I tell myself these days (that it's normal), but I think most people will go, "huh, yeah, I guess the world is a bit illusionary," and go on with their lives. I mean, this feeling hasn't necessarily ruined my life (though I wonder what it'd be like if I were more "within myself"), I still make decisions about my future and present as if reality has real stakes.
>Most of life is convention (or a lie, if you look at it from another pov), and sometimes the seams are quite visible.
By life, do you mean living reality? Because socially, I've always been quite aware of the constructed nature of things. I suppose the feeling (in the OP) goes beyond convention or lie sometimes, it's like a doubling of my sense of existing.
>>9719
>It's not a 'high IQ' thing either, its an "in my head thinking too much" thing.
I agree with this. I'm not very smart. I think I actually have some sort of math brain disability, because I find it extremely difficult to work out certain mathematical problems vs how it seems other people do.
>My advice is to pick between living in your head, and living IRL.
Yeah, I try my best to live IRL, but I'm not good at it.
--
Another thought is that another concept which gets close to this feeling is deja vu. Sometimes I have a kind of deja vu mixed with paranoia, that I'm living in some sort of trickster world. Actually, when I'm most stressed, sometimes I have thought everybody is playing a trick on me, and that they know more, and there's a sort of laugh at my existence, but I've dismissed this as being some sort of anxious madness.
Is there any particular line of thinking that sparks this feeling
Anonymous :
46 days ago :
No.9713
>>9725
>>9704
Sometimes it's random, sometimes it's considering something that contradicts life, such as death.
>>9713
I don't know, that's what I tell myself these days (that it's normal), but I think most people will go, "huh, yeah, I guess the world is a bit illusionary," and go on with their lives. I mean, this feeling hasn't necessarily ruined my life (though I wonder what it'd be like if I were more "within myself"), I still make decisions about my future and present as if reality has real stakes.
>Most of life is convention (or a lie, if you look at it from another pov), and sometimes the seams are quite visible.
By life, do you mean living reality? Because socially, I've always been quite aware of the constructed nature of things. I suppose the feeling (in the OP) goes beyond convention or lie sometimes, it's like a doubling of my sense of existing.
>>9719
>It's not a 'high IQ' thing either, its an "in my head thinking too much" thing.
I agree with this. I'm not very smart. I think I actually have some sort of math brain disability, because I find it extremely difficult to work out certain mathematical problems vs how it seems other people do.
>My advice is to pick between living in your head, and living IRL.
Yeah, I try my best to live IRL, but I'm not good at it.
--
Another thought is that another concept which gets close to this feeling is deja vu. Sometimes I have a kind of deja vu mixed with paranoia, that I'm living in some sort of trickster world. Actually, when I'm most stressed, sometimes I have thought everybody is playing a trick on me, and that they know more, and there's a sort of laugh at my existence, but I've dismissed this as being some sort of anxious madness.
Isn't this pretty normal? Most of life is convention (or a lie, if you look at it from another pov), and sometimes the seams are quite visible. Some people see them more than others.
Anonymous :
46 days ago :
No.9719
>>9725
>>9704
Sometimes it's random, sometimes it's considering something that contradicts life, such as death.
>>9713
I don't know, that's what I tell myself these days (that it's normal), but I think most people will go, "huh, yeah, I guess the world is a bit illusionary," and go on with their lives. I mean, this feeling hasn't necessarily ruined my life (though I wonder what it'd be like if I were more "within myself"), I still make decisions about my future and present as if reality has real stakes.
>Most of life is convention (or a lie, if you look at it from another pov), and sometimes the seams are quite visible.
By life, do you mean living reality? Because socially, I've always been quite aware of the constructed nature of things. I suppose the feeling (in the OP) goes beyond convention or lie sometimes, it's like a doubling of my sense of existing.
>>9719
>It's not a 'high IQ' thing either, its an "in my head thinking too much" thing.
I agree with this. I'm not very smart. I think I actually have some sort of math brain disability, because I find it extremely difficult to work out certain mathematical problems vs how it seems other people do.
>My advice is to pick between living in your head, and living IRL.
Yeah, I try my best to live IRL, but I'm not good at it.
--
Another thought is that another concept which gets close to this feeling is deja vu. Sometimes I have a kind of deja vu mixed with paranoia, that I'm living in some sort of trickster world. Actually, when I'm most stressed, sometimes I have thought everybody is playing a trick on me, and that they know more, and there's a sort of laugh at my existence, but I've dismissed this as being some sort of anxious madness.
Without quoting some genius... you know the quote about philosophy not bringing happiness but actually a deeper understanding of how horrible everything is? That's where you're at right now.
It's not a 'high IQ' thing either, its an "in my head thinking too much" thing.
I should know, I suffer from it too. In my down time I find my self ruminating on ideas that bring me almost out of this world to only make reality feel dull. My advice is to pick between living in your head, and living IRL.
>>9704
Is there any particular line of thinking that sparks this feeling
Sometimes it's random, sometimes it's considering something that contradicts life, such as death.
>>9713Isn't this pretty normal? Most of life is convention (or a lie, if you look at it from another pov), and sometimes the seams are quite visible. Some people see them more than others.
I don't know, that's what I tell myself these days (that it's normal), but I think most people will go, "huh, yeah, I guess the world is a bit illusionary," and go on with their lives. I mean, this feeling hasn't necessarily ruined my life (though I wonder what it'd be like if I were more "within myself"), I still make decisions about my future and present as if reality has real stakes.
>Most of life is convention (or a lie, if you look at it from another pov), and sometimes the seams are quite visible.
By life, do you mean living reality? Because socially, I've always been quite aware of the constructed nature of things. I suppose the feeling (in the OP) goes beyond convention or lie sometimes, it's like a doubling of my sense of existing.
>>9719Without quoting some genius... you know the quote about philosophy not bringing happiness but actually a deeper understanding of how horrible everything is? That's where you're at right now.
It's not a 'high IQ' thing either, its an "in my head thinking too much" thing.
I should know, I suffer from it too. In my down time I find my self ruminating on ideas that bring me almost out of this world to only make reality feel dull. My advice is to pick between living in your head, and living IRL.
>It's not a 'high IQ' thing either, its an "in my head thinking too much" thing.
I agree with this. I'm not very smart. I think I actually have some sort of math brain disability, because I find it extremely difficult to work out certain mathematical problems vs how it seems other people do.
>My advice is to pick between living in your head, and living IRL.
Yeah, I try my best to live IRL, but I'm not good at it.
--
Another thought is that another concept which gets close to this feeling is deja vu. Sometimes I have a kind of deja vu mixed with paranoia, that I'm living in some sort of trickster world. Actually, when I'm most stressed, sometimes I have thought everybody is playing a trick on me, and that they know more, and there's a sort of laugh at my existence, but I've dismissed this as being some sort of anxious madness.
I think the appropriate thing to do here is to peel back the symbolism you've associated with this, try to line up the various experiences you've had that have invoked this feeling, and try to zoom in on the exact sensation at the middle of all of those experiences.
When I've had experiences like you've described, the thing at the center is a kind of ... nauseating awareness? of my life and my world. Like having a really clear meditative awareness of everything at moments when it's behaviorally inappropriate. At one level I think it's a failure of the normal feedback loop between observation and intentional action -- like you suddenly forget the frame of reference of being a motivated, intentional person and suddenly discover there's a bunch of random shit going on. I think it's related to anxiety, because in anxiety and neuroticism there's this prevalent second-guessing of intention.
Anonymous :
44 days ago :
No.9787
>>9791
>>9787
The Buddhist mystic tradition appeals to me, though I'll admit to not knowing much about it. I'll check this out.
"Guidance on Being at Ease with Illusion" is what you're looking for. It even literally contains the term "unreality."
www.lotsawahouse.org/tibetan-masters/longchen-rabjam/gyuma-ngalso-wish-fulfilling-gem
Anonymous :
44 days ago :
No.9791
>>9793
>>9791
It's essentially advising you to engage a number of Buddhist practices so you more deeply understand the unreality, because you're already somewhat (a lot) right about it. Most of those practices are not going to make sense on their own through that text and will require a lot of learning, contemplating, and meditating. The benefit is that you eventually won't feel the unease you have about unreality. You'll be more and more sure you're right about it as blissful and other interesting experiences deepen your understanding. Eventually, enlightenment.
The converse is that you can of course choose to not learn about such things, but that unease you feel will never go away, because it is rooted in a partial but correct understanding. And in Buddhist terms, you'll have wasted the most precious thing, a human life, not making progress towards that wisdom. On the other hand, accumulating that wisdom is one of two kinds that are said to eventually lead to enlightenment. The other is accumulating merit through virtuous actions. So if living with that unease is in service of being an incredibly virtuous person, that would still be good in the context of Buddhism. But if you're just going to be a regular one, you're better off doing the practices and gaining whatever understanding you can.
>>9787
"Guidance on Being at Ease with Illusion" is what you're looking for. It even literally contains the term "unreality."
www.lotsawahouse.org/tibetan-masters/longchen-rabjam/gyuma-ngalso-wish-fulfilling-gem
The Buddhist mystic tradition appeals to me, though I'll admit to not knowing much about it. I'll check this out.
Anonymous :
44 days ago :
No.9793
>>9806
>>9793
Interesting. Although I've read some of the Christian mystics and liked them (Hildegarde, etc), I appreciate that Buddhism has such a strong emphasis on contemplating on phenomena and knowledge (for lack of better phrasing), and how the strength or effect of that particular focus results in a kind of new being (I don't want to say just a "better understanding", because from what I do know, enlightenment isn't just a realization).
Also, I skimmed through the page (I'll return to it more focused later) and enjoyed this:
>Through unwavering meditative absorption,
>the mind will remain clear and lucid,
>your vision will see the translucency of appearances,
>you’ll have the clairvoyance of knowing others’ minds,
>and you’ll accomplish the immeasurable supernormal powers, such as the >ability to travel through space.
I thought it was amusing, although I did consider that Christian monks have also traditionally believed that meditation could result in the individual "floating" and thought it was a miracle (Thomas Aquinas is I think one of the most notable figures this is ascribed to).
Okay, that's a superficial observation I know.
>>9794
>There is no solution besides existing.
And everything else is just "cope"?
>>9791
>>9787
The Buddhist mystic tradition appeals to me, though I'll admit to not knowing much about it. I'll check this out.
It's essentially advising you to engage a number of Buddhist practices so you more deeply understand the unreality, because you're already somewhat (a lot) right about it. Most of those practices are not going to make sense on their own through that text and will require a lot of learning, contemplating, and meditating. The benefit is that you eventually won't feel the unease you have about unreality. You'll be more and more sure you're right about it as blissful and other interesting experiences deepen your understanding. Eventually, enlightenment.
The converse is that you can of course choose to not learn about such things, but that unease you feel will never go away, because it is rooted in a partial but correct understanding. And in Buddhist terms, you'll have wasted the most precious thing, a human life, not making progress towards that wisdom. On the other hand, accumulating that wisdom is one of two kinds that are said to eventually lead to enlightenment. The other is accumulating merit through virtuous actions. So if living with that unease is in service of being an incredibly virtuous person, that would still be good in the context of Buddhism. But if you're just going to be a regular one, you're better off doing the practices and gaining whatever understanding you can.
Anonymous :
44 days ago :
No.9794
>>9806
>>9793
Interesting. Although I've read some of the Christian mystics and liked them (Hildegarde, etc), I appreciate that Buddhism has such a strong emphasis on contemplating on phenomena and knowledge (for lack of better phrasing), and how the strength or effect of that particular focus results in a kind of new being (I don't want to say just a "better understanding", because from what I do know, enlightenment isn't just a realization).
Also, I skimmed through the page (I'll return to it more focused later) and enjoyed this:
>Through unwavering meditative absorption,
>the mind will remain clear and lucid,
>your vision will see the translucency of appearances,
>you’ll have the clairvoyance of knowing others’ minds,
>and you’ll accomplish the immeasurable supernormal powers, such as the >ability to travel through space.
I thought it was amusing, although I did consider that Christian monks have also traditionally believed that meditation could result in the individual "floating" and thought it was a miracle (Thomas Aquinas is I think one of the most notable figures this is ascribed to).
Okay, that's a superficial observation I know.
>>9794
>There is no solution besides existing.
And everything else is just "cope"?
>>9798
>>9792
>There is no solution besides existing.
www.lotsawahouse.org/tibetan-masters/dodrupchen-III/ignorance-of-the-learned
Sure, but Sartre at least enjoins to not shy away from the feeling. It is ignorant from a Buddhist perspective but the not shying away is a conscious choice and necessary to follow any kind of Path.
Anonymous :
44 days ago :
No.9806
>>9813
>>9806
Yeah I was oversimplifying. There's at least two distinct types of wisdom, for instance. The one you accumulate is further split into five aspects corresponding to the five wisdom buddhas, etc. The other is divided into listening (conceptual learning), contemplating (deep analysis including subconsciously, like one might have an insight about something you aren't thinking about while on a walk, but you're intentionally cultivating that process through particular actions; this is what most people believe meditation is and what they mean when they use the term), and meditating (something else entirely). My point was that ailing this woe requires more than standard conceptual learning and even beyond the sitting and focusing on the breath type stuff we call meditation.
It's my understanding that the religion of Christianity itself is actually rather comfortable with the supernatural and just demands its own expressions be considered superior. In Buddhism these powers are considered mundane in comparison to enlightenment, basically just another signpost that you're on the right track, on which you will encounter an *immeasurable* number of these.
>>9824>>9806
>ability to travel through space.
Isn't this easily understood in modern terms as astral projection? Even some of the most secular parts of society like spooks nod to its possibility. Definitely not as unrealistic as levitation.
>>9793
>>9791
It's essentially advising you to engage a number of Buddhist practices so you more deeply understand the unreality, because you're already somewhat (a lot) right about it. Most of those practices are not going to make sense on their own through that text and will require a lot of learning, contemplating, and meditating. The benefit is that you eventually won't feel the unease you have about unreality. You'll be more and more sure you're right about it as blissful and other interesting experiences deepen your understanding. Eventually, enlightenment.
The converse is that you can of course choose to not learn about such things, but that unease you feel will never go away, because it is rooted in a partial but correct understanding. And in Buddhist terms, you'll have wasted the most precious thing, a human life, not making progress towards that wisdom. On the other hand, accumulating that wisdom is one of two kinds that are said to eventually lead to enlightenment. The other is accumulating merit through virtuous actions. So if living with that unease is in service of being an incredibly virtuous person, that would still be good in the context of Buddhism. But if you're just going to be a regular one, you're better off doing the practices and gaining whatever understanding you can.
Interesting. Although I've read some of the Christian mystics and liked them (Hildegarde, etc), I appreciate that Buddhism has such a strong emphasis on contemplating on phenomena and knowledge (for lack of better phrasing), and how the strength or effect of that particular focus results in a kind of new being (I don't want to say just a "better understanding", because from what I do know, enlightenment isn't just a realization).
Also, I skimmed through the page (I'll return to it more focused later) and enjoyed this:
>Through unwavering meditative absorption,
>the mind will remain clear and lucid,
>your vision will see the translucency of appearances,
>you’ll have the clairvoyance of knowing others’ minds,
>and you’ll accomplish the immeasurable supernormal powers, such as the >ability to travel through space.
I thought it was amusing, although I did consider that Christian monks have also traditionally believed that meditation could result in the individual "floating" and thought it was a miracle (Thomas Aquinas is I think one of the most notable figures this is ascribed to).
Okay, that's a superficial observation I know.
>>9794>>9792
There is no solution besides existing. The book just expands on the feeling you describe.
>There is no solution besides existing.
And everything else is just "cope"?
Anonymous :
44 days ago :
No.9813
>>9820
>>9813
>My point was that ailing this woe requires more than standard conceptual learning and even beyond the sitting and focusing on the breath type stuff we call meditation.
That's an interesting point. I used to have a "conventional" / mainstream type meditation practice, but haven't bothered in so long. Sometimes I can't tell if I should be more in my body or more outside of it.
>>9806
>>9793
Interesting. Although I've read some of the Christian mystics and liked them (Hildegarde, etc), I appreciate that Buddhism has such a strong emphasis on contemplating on phenomena and knowledge (for lack of better phrasing), and how the strength or effect of that particular focus results in a kind of new being (I don't want to say just a "better understanding", because from what I do know, enlightenment isn't just a realization).
Also, I skimmed through the page (I'll return to it more focused later) and enjoyed this:
>Through unwavering meditative absorption,
>the mind will remain clear and lucid,
>your vision will see the translucency of appearances,
>you’ll have the clairvoyance of knowing others’ minds,
>and you’ll accomplish the immeasurable supernormal powers, such as the >ability to travel through space.
I thought it was amusing, although I did consider that Christian monks have also traditionally believed that meditation could result in the individual "floating" and thought it was a miracle (Thomas Aquinas is I think one of the most notable figures this is ascribed to).
Okay, that's a superficial observation I know.
>>9794
>There is no solution besides existing.
And everything else is just "cope"?
Yeah I was oversimplifying. There's at least two distinct types of wisdom, for instance. The one you accumulate is further split into five aspects corresponding to the five wisdom buddhas, etc. The other is divided into listening (conceptual learning), contemplating (deep analysis including subconsciously, like one might have an insight about something you aren't thinking about while on a walk, but you're intentionally cultivating that process through particular actions; this is what most people believe meditation is and what they mean when they use the term), and meditating (something else entirely). My point was that ailing this woe requires more than standard conceptual learning and even beyond the sitting and focusing on the breath type stuff we call meditation.
It's my understanding that the religion of Christianity itself is actually rather comfortable with the supernatural and just demands its own expressions be considered superior. In Buddhism these powers are considered mundane in comparison to enlightenment, basically just another signpost that you're on the right track, on which you will encounter an *immeasurable* number of these.
Anonymous :
43 days ago :
No.9820
>>9831
>>9820
The sitting and focusing on the breath stuff is still needed. It's just a preliminary to the actual meditation. Application of mindfulness to the body is the least of the first stage of the path:
www.lotsawahouse.org/tibetan-masters/patrul-rinpoche/stages-and-path
>>9813
>>9806
Yeah I was oversimplifying. There's at least two distinct types of wisdom, for instance. The one you accumulate is further split into five aspects corresponding to the five wisdom buddhas, etc. The other is divided into listening (conceptual learning), contemplating (deep analysis including subconsciously, like one might have an insight about something you aren't thinking about while on a walk, but you're intentionally cultivating that process through particular actions; this is what most people believe meditation is and what they mean when they use the term), and meditating (something else entirely). My point was that ailing this woe requires more than standard conceptual learning and even beyond the sitting and focusing on the breath type stuff we call meditation.
It's my understanding that the religion of Christianity itself is actually rather comfortable with the supernatural and just demands its own expressions be considered superior. In Buddhism these powers are considered mundane in comparison to enlightenment, basically just another signpost that you're on the right track, on which you will encounter an *immeasurable* number of these.
>My point was that ailing this woe requires more than standard conceptual learning and even beyond the sitting and focusing on the breath type stuff we call meditation.
That's an interesting point. I used to have a "conventional" / mainstream type meditation practice, but haven't bothered in so long. Sometimes I can't tell if I should be more in my body or more outside of it.
Anonymous :
43 days ago :
No.9824
>>9825
>>9824
I couldn't tell if it was literal space or within the mind.
>>9806
>>9793
Interesting. Although I've read some of the Christian mystics and liked them (Hildegarde, etc), I appreciate that Buddhism has such a strong emphasis on contemplating on phenomena and knowledge (for lack of better phrasing), and how the strength or effect of that particular focus results in a kind of new being (I don't want to say just a "better understanding", because from what I do know, enlightenment isn't just a realization).
Also, I skimmed through the page (I'll return to it more focused later) and enjoyed this:
>Through unwavering meditative absorption,
>the mind will remain clear and lucid,
>your vision will see the translucency of appearances,
>you’ll have the clairvoyance of knowing others’ minds,
>and you’ll accomplish the immeasurable supernormal powers, such as the >ability to travel through space.
I thought it was amusing, although I did consider that Christian monks have also traditionally believed that meditation could result in the individual "floating" and thought it was a miracle (Thomas Aquinas is I think one of the most notable figures this is ascribed to).
Okay, that's a superficial observation I know.
>>9794
>There is no solution besides existing.
And everything else is just "cope"?
>ability to travel through space.
Isn't this easily understood in modern terms as astral projection? Even some of the most secular parts of society like spooks nod to its possibility. Definitely not as unrealistic as levitation.
>>9824
>>9806
>ability to travel through space.
Isn't this easily understood in modern terms as astral projection? Even some of the most secular parts of society like spooks nod to its possibility. Definitely not as unrealistic as levitation.
I couldn't tell if it was literal space or within the mind.
>>9820
>>9813
>My point was that ailing this woe requires more than standard conceptual learning and even beyond the sitting and focusing on the breath type stuff we call meditation.
That's an interesting point. I used to have a "conventional" / mainstream type meditation practice, but haven't bothered in so long. Sometimes I can't tell if I should be more in my body or more outside of it.
The sitting and focusing on the breath stuff is still needed. It's just a preliminary to the actual meditation. Application of mindfulness to the body is the least of the first stage of the path:
www.lotsawahouse.org/tibetan-masters/patrul-rinpoche/stages-and-path