/pt/ – Petrarchan

I'm pretty bad at video games and I don't mind that fact. It means that I spend my time, at least in part, on better and more worthwhile things.

You just have to find the zen of losing. Let it wash over you like water. But of course, there is a level of "unplayable bad" where you just have to hang it up. All of these online multiplayer competitive games have powerful selection effects. The good players (those who are naturally talented or have been playing since they were young) latch on and play often while the mid and bad steadily fall off. This can lead to a death spiral where it's very difficult for new players to get started and the game succumbs to attrition. I don't really play any of these anymore because me and my friends are all employed and in relationships but I was Diamond 3 in rocket league for a second. It's totally meaningless. There's always someone better and there's no material or spiritual gain to be found from getting better. Games that are worth cultivating are rare (tennis, melee)

i couldn't do any missions in gta. video games stress me out. I also don't like how hyperimmersive and repetitive they are. I do wish I was good at them or interested enough to get better because a lot of people in my life are into video games and itd be a great way to connect with them and spend more time with them I spend my time watching television shows made for npcs and reading midbrow fiction

isn't this a redscare offshoot? Why are we talking about video games? Holy shit imageboards dead

>>9533

i couldn't do any missions in gta. video games stress me out. I also don't like how hyperimmersive and repetitive they are. I do wish I was good at them or interested enough to get better because a lot of people in my life are into video games and itd be a great way to connect with them and spend more time with them I spend my time watching television shows made for npcs and reading midbrow fiction

What's your idea of midbrow?

>>9534

isn't this a redscare offshoot? Why are we talking about video games? Holy shit imageboards dead

>Wh-Why won't it let me downvote? Mods!!

>>9535

>>9533 What's your idea of midbrow?

the Godfather, circe, the talented Mr Ripley, jurassic park, hunger games trilogy, anne of green gables and the like. i also read classics and enjoy reading them very much but my true loves are the type of books mentioned above

>>9536

>>9534 >Wh-Why won't it let me downvote? Mods!!

first they posted soyjacks, and i did not speak out, for i was a lurker Then they posted video games, and i did not speak out, for i was a lurker Then they posted genderwar slop, and i did not speak out, for i was a lurker ...

I have severe vision issues so I never enjoyed shooter games or anything fast paced. I think scrolling is my version of vidya. I see how much people get sucked into playing and I'm glad I avoided it for the most part.

>>9537

>>9535 the Godfather, circe, the talented Mr Ripley, jurassic park, hunger games trilogy, anne of green gables and the like. i also read classics and enjoy reading them very much but my true loves are the type of books mentioned above

That's interesting. I wouldn't have thought of talented Mr. Ripley or Jurrasic Park as middlebrow but what else would they be? Usually when I think of middlebrow I think of high-contemporary-normie-brow like Murakami or Ferrante. Severance etc

>>9538

>>9536 first they posted soyjacks, and i did not speak out, for i was a lurker Then they posted video games, and i did not speak out, for i was a lurker Then they posted genderwar slop, and i did not speak out, for i was a lurker ...

The reactive anti-video-game sentiment is a vestigial organ of the redscarepodian mind. Don't get me wrong, it at one point held a very important role in maintaining a specific kind of userbase that wouldn't naturally devolve into the standard reddit biomass that everywhere else did. But alas, the reddit biomass has changed and so have I. In short: the problem with the internet is no longer a preponderance of unashamed loser men. It is now something much more annoying, something that is hard to define but that you see bleeding into real life in all contexts. Something closely related to a kind of self-censoring, distributed struggle sessioning. "You are not a vibe bro" etc. Does this ring true for anyone else? Am i just ranting? In any case, I've made it my goal to fight back against this by talking about minecraft mods on /lit/, philip traylen's substack, etc. It feels like throwing a brick through a quiktrip window, you know what I mean? Propaganda of the Deed. Does anybody else see what I'm getting at? Like am I crazy or what haha.

This guy would never have been creepshotted like this if he was playing tennis or run-clubbing o algo. Ultimately, both the subject and the photographer could have "opted out" of the whole thing by getting into Elden Ring and listening to Bladee

I agree with the other poster that video games aren't really /pt/ or rsp or whatever (I could name some exceptions like Pathologic or Alexis Kennedy's games but I don't want to start "are vidya art?" quagmire since it is lowbrow and stupid). But this post touches on something that's been simmering in me for many years now without any outlet, and now that you poked that pressurized vessel I gotta fire up, I'm terribly sorry. Ever since I was a kid I loved games (well yeah every kid loves games, I know). And it just so happened that games remained that interest of mine for various reasons, games of any kind: video games, traditional games (Hello to any fa/tg/uys here), modern board games, miniature wargames especially, card games couple of times (not mtg). Mostly strategy games, shooters to far lesser extent (and it is only through a miracle of being contrarian brained that I somehow never sunk into cs or dota. Count that as a rare boon). The nicher the better. I played bridge for a couple of years, mahjong, dabbled at chess and go. Too many different games of other categories to count. Overall I spent ungodly amount of my life learning, playing and reading up on sometimes very niche games, which is to say the least a frivolous life choice. But I guess I was never an ambitious type. Thus it may suprise you I never got good at virtually any of them. In about any competitive environment, tourney, league, whatnot I consistently rank bottom ~25%, and seemingly the more time and effort goes into whatever I'm particularily obsessed with at given moment, the worse results I'd achieve, whether game has strong probabilistic component or not. I never considered myself Win At All Cost sort of person, in fact I was always epitome of what would be called a Good Loser if such archetype was widespread enough to warrant being an archetype. But the zen of losing thing is a big bold lie, I tell you that. Because this has absolutely, very slowly, hollowed me out in the "Dripping water shapes the stone" sort of way, to the point that I've been very quietly seething at myself over this, and spent a lot of time wondering what is wrong with my brain, exactly. I can still derive fun from them, but there are times where this situation triggers some severe neurosis of mine. It's difficult to describe in a way that carries the gravity with which this nonsense can get to my sperg ass in a way that there is no real cope for. Good thing I never got into gambling, I guess?

My parents were otherwise pretty socially liberal, but they 100% bought into the 90s anti-video-game sentiment. To this day they will basically argue with you that video games are a special form of media, due to the interactivity, and that performing antisocial behaviors in simulation prepares people to undertake antisocial behavior in real life. As a consequence, in my life I have probably spent no more than five hours holding a video game device of any kind. I don't think I've ever held any video game device for longer than 20 minutes, max. I got away with playing games at friends' houses as a kid, but friends were generally bored with letting me play. I had a little bubble of interest when I was a kid, but it passed. To answer the OP questions, I am unplayably bad at just about any game you can show me. I feel totally at-ease with that. Whenever I see someone's gaming rig I feel like I'm looking at a filthy bong. I have a few more perspectives on the phenomenon. First, I think that the "forbidden fruit" effect is wildly overstated, and is usually used as cope for parents who just don't have the guts to prohibit something and it's an excuse for kids who have learned to get their way by pushing their parents' boundaries. I think that "forbidden fruit" and "backfire effect" arguments are fig leafs for weak parenting. Second, I don't agree with my parents about the exact nature of the problem (I think that violent families are the main predictor for violent behaviors) but I do believe that video games are 100% a time sink and 99% of people who play vidya could improve their lives by quitting. Video games are the proverbial nose of the camel for the culture of "let people enjoy things," and it's not an accident that within a generation millennials have collected an entire lifestyle of weed, video games, and the rest. Third, I think that most video games live far far beneath their potential. It's wild to me that there is the technical potential for an immersive artform and nearly everyone is satisfied to leave it at the most deadeyed casino-like level of development. I feel like I'm watching Sumerians use writing exclusively to record types and amounts of grain.

>>9541

>>9538 The reactive anti-video-game sentiment is a vestigial organ of the redscarepodian mind. Don't get me wrong, it at one point held a very important role in maintaining a specific kind of userbase that wouldn't naturally devolve into the standard reddit biomass that everywhere else did. But alas, the reddit biomass has changed and so have I. In short: the problem with the internet is no longer a preponderance of unashamed loser men. It is now something much more annoying, something that is hard to define but that you see bleeding into real life in all contexts. Something closely related to a kind of self-censoring, distributed struggle sessioning. "You are not a vibe bro" etc. Does this ring true for anyone else? Am i just ranting? In any case, I've made it my goal to fight back against this by talking about minecraft mods on /lit/, philip traylen's substack, etc. It feels like throwing a brick through a quiktrip window, you know what I mean? Propaganda of the Deed. Does anybody else see what I'm getting at? Like am I crazy or what haha.

I've felt this way for a while, especially after r/rs_x started picking up steam. It's understandable to want to curate a specific atmosphere and a userbase that will cater to it. The problem occurs when everyone becomes swept up in virtue-signaling, concerned solely with proving to themselves and everyone else (on an entirely anonymous forum) that they are truly and unequivocally "RS." And it's not really necessary to define what being "RS" might mean. As a result each successive redscare community becomes increasingly stale and regurgitative in content. For me (and anecdotally many other people adjacent to these niche corners of the internet), I became a virtual refugee. I started migrating from each banned/stale/boring/astroturfed subreddit/imageboard/offsite to another in a search of something actually genuine and exciting. Is a community that goes on and on about the same pseudo-intellectual musings any better than one that goes on and on about culture-war, gender-war, videogames, etc.? I'd argue not. To conclude this retarded diatribe I think it's necessary to have ~some~ number of new, outsider influence for a community to not grow stale. If I was to make a somewhat navel-gazey analogy, it's kind of similar to how genetic variation is necessary to ensure long term evolution (and as a result punished thru genetic disease). Gatekeeping is obviously good (here the analogy might break down a bit) but in excess it'll just lead to a slow, boring death. Arguably, the org has been going through this in real time since the pandemic.

>>9540

>>9537 That's interesting. I wouldn't have thought of talented Mr. Ripley or Jurrasic Park as middlebrow but what else would they be? Usually when I think of middlebrow I think of high-contemporary-normie-brow like Murakami or Ferrante. Severance etc

curious to know if any tv shows reach highbrow status for you (other than twin peaks)

>>9548

>>9540 curious to know if any tv shows reach highbrow status for you (other than twin peaks)

I have some hear-me-outs for sure but they might be hard to defend. The Curse comes to mind. How to with John Wilson is sceney-highbrow, which might just be an exclusive type of middlebrow. One that I'm confident in though is Raised by Wolves. An inspired, weird weird sci-fi show. Cancelled after 2 seasons for having 0 audience. Whether it's good or not, it's certainly not middlebrow

>>9543

I agree with the other poster that video games aren't really /pt/ or rsp or whatever (I could name some exceptions like Pathologic or Alexis Kennedy's games but I don't want to start "are vidya art?" quagmire since it is lowbrow and stupid). But this post touches on something that's been simmering in me for many years now without any outlet, and now that you poked that pressurized vessel I gotta fire up, I'm terribly sorry. Ever since I was a kid I loved games (well yeah every kid loves games, I know). And it just so happened that games remained that interest of mine for various reasons, games of any kind: video games, traditional games (Hello to any fa/tg/uys here), modern board games, miniature wargames especially, card games couple of times (not mtg). Mostly strategy games, shooters to far lesser extent (and it is only through a miracle of being contrarian brained that I somehow never sunk into cs or dota. Count that as a rare boon). The nicher the better. I played bridge for a couple of years, mahjong, dabbled at chess and go. Too many different games of other categories to count. Overall I spent ungodly amount of my life learning, playing and reading up on sometimes very niche games, which is to say the least a frivolous life choice. But I guess I was never an ambitious type. Thus it may suprise you I never got good at virtually any of them. In about any competitive environment, tourney, league, whatnot I consistently rank bottom ~25%, and seemingly the more time and effort goes into whatever I'm particularily obsessed with at given moment, the worse results I'd achieve, whether game has strong probabilistic component or not. I never considered myself Win At All Cost sort of person, in fact I was always epitome of what would be called a Good Loser if such archetype was widespread enough to warrant being an archetype. But the zen of losing thing is a big bold lie, I tell you that. Because this has absolutely, very slowly, hollowed me out in the "Dripping water shapes the stone" sort of way, to the point that I've been very quietly seething at myself over this, and spent a lot of time wondering what is wrong with my brain, exactly. I can still derive fun from them, but there are times where this situation triggers some severe neurosis of mine. It's difficult to describe in a way that carries the gravity with which this nonsense can get to my sperg ass in a way that there is no real cope for. Good thing I never got into gambling, I guess?

I felt this way for a while and found that it just went away at some point. Life eventually got busy enough that it felt ridiculous to give an inch of mental real-estate to your skill at a game. I have a friend like you that gets aggro over any game he loses -- tennis, cs2, anything. After many attempts at amelioration I've accepted that he will never find the zen of losing. Maybe it's hardwired in your brain or something. >>9547

>>9541 I've felt this way for a while, especially after r/rs_x started picking up steam. It's understandable to want to curate a specific atmosphere and a userbase that will cater to it. The problem occurs when everyone becomes swept up in virtue-signaling, concerned solely with proving to themselves and everyone else (on an entirely anonymous forum) that they are truly and unequivocally "RS." And it's not really necessary to define what being "RS" might mean. As a result each successive redscare community becomes increasingly stale and regurgitative in content. For me (and anecdotally many other people adjacent to these niche corners of the internet), I became a virtual refugee. I started migrating from each banned/stale/boring/astroturfed subreddit/imageboard/offsite to another in a search of something actually genuine and exciting. Is a community that goes on and on about the same pseudo-intellectual musings any better than one that goes on and on about culture-war, gender-war, videogames, etc.? I'd argue not. To conclude this retarded diatribe I think it's necessary to have ~some~ number of new, outsider influence for a community to not grow stale. If I was to make a somewhat navel-gazey analogy, it's kind of similar to how genetic variation is necessary to ensure long term evolution (and as a result punished thru genetic disease). Gatekeeping is obviously good (here the analogy might break down a bit) but in excess it'll just lead to a slow, boring death. Arguably, the org has been going through this in real time since the pandemic.

Apt analogy -- rsp today is the model-collapse version of its 2020 self. Back then, the average poster would have read at least a few passages from Fisher, Land, BAP, Houellebecq, Paglia. Today's users have read nothing but other rsp posts.

There should probably be a site-wide ban of redscarepod discussion, but before such a rule is instated I’d just like to lament what an awful, normified cesspool that place has become. Probably just the ‘narcissism of small differences’ speaking but I think it’s legitimately the worst place on the internet. Everyone interesting replaced by waves and waves of consensus-seeking median americans. Everyone chronically pissed off about nothing in particular. The preening self-awareness. Disgusting

>>9544

My parents were otherwise pretty socially liberal, but they 100% bought into the 90s anti-video-game sentiment. To this day they will basically argue with you that video games are a special form of media, due to the interactivity, and that performing antisocial behaviors in simulation prepares people to undertake antisocial behavior in real life. As a consequence, in my life I have probably spent no more than five hours holding a video game device of any kind. I don't think I've ever held any video game device for longer than 20 minutes, max. I got away with playing games at friends' houses as a kid, but friends were generally bored with letting me play. I had a little bubble of interest when I was a kid, but it passed. To answer the OP questions, I am unplayably bad at just about any game you can show me. I feel totally at-ease with that. Whenever I see someone's gaming rig I feel like I'm looking at a filthy bong. I have a few more perspectives on the phenomenon. First, I think that the "forbidden fruit" effect is wildly overstated, and is usually used as cope for parents who just don't have the guts to prohibit something and it's an excuse for kids who have learned to get their way by pushing their parents' boundaries. I think that "forbidden fruit" and "backfire effect" arguments are fig leafs for weak parenting. Second, I don't agree with my parents about the exact nature of the problem (I think that violent families are the main predictor for violent behaviors) but I do believe that video games are 100% a time sink and 99% of people who play vidya could improve their lives by quitting. Video games are the proverbial nose of the camel for the culture of "let people enjoy things," and it's not an accident that within a generation millennials have collected an entire lifestyle of weed, video games, and the rest. Third, I think that most video games live far far beneath their potential. It's wild to me that there is the technical potential for an immersive artform and nearly everyone is satisfied to leave it at the most deadeyed casino-like level of development. I feel like I'm watching Sumerians use writing exclusively to record types and amounts of grain.

>performing antisocial behaviors in simulation prepares people to undertake antisocial behavior in real life. People disagree with this? Whatever you're doing, you're doing, for real or not, especially if you bring intention to it. It's similar to anonymous shitposting to me, or daydreaming about doing horrible things. Both have an impact (obviously different from actually doing it but it's not null).

>>9555

>>9544 >performing antisocial behaviors in simulation prepares people to undertake antisocial behavior in real life. People disagree with this? Whatever you're doing, you're doing, for real or not, especially if you bring intention to it. It's similar to anonymous shitposting to me, or daydreaming about doing horrible things. Both have an impact (obviously different from actually doing it but it's not null).

yeah even simulators of death to get food (like in Minecraft) are still disturbing. I wouldn't let my kid play until he was older. the Wii was the most kids friendly but I dont even know where mine is

>>9534

isn't this a redscare offshoot? Why are we talking about video games? Holy shit imageboards dead

I believe someone should make a Petrarchan reading list

>>9555

>>9544 >performing antisocial behaviors in simulation prepares people to undertake antisocial behavior in real life. People disagree with this? Whatever you're doing, you're doing, for real or not, especially if you bring intention to it. It's similar to anonymous shitposting to me, or daydreaming about doing horrible things. Both have an impact (obviously different from actually doing it but it's not null).

It's plausible in theory but the number of violent crimes has not exploded to the degree that the theory would predict. If anything the stats have gone the opposite way since the 90s

>>9561

>>9555 It's plausible in theory but the number of violent crimes has not exploded to the degree that the theory would predict. If anything the stats have gone the opposite way since the 90s

The "theory" doesn't state that an act done in imagination/game translates into the same act in reality. It states that an act done in a simulation does *prepare* you to do the same in reality. It's the old debate between reinforcement and catharsis: do I train myself to feel hate by simulating the bashing of a bad guy in the game, or do I get rid of my feelings of hate by simulating the bashing of the guy? Behavioral psychology believes in reinforcement (see pic, Bushman (20O2) for a well-known example); traditional psychology, psychoanalysis, talk therapy, etc. uses catharsis to give meaning and sublimate (among other things). Both have their uses, I'm guessing; I don't believe it is one or the other. If you think of it as emotions felt and scenarios that lead to specific emotions, yeah, it maybe doesn't translate into more murders in statistics, but rather into additional general rudeness, public rage, disrespect, etc. It probably depends also on the way the game is played and what the player feels. By the way, apparently, after the 2020 lockdowns, interpersonal violence and murders seem to be on the rise in Europe; same in the US, according to search engine first results.

>>9562

>>9561 The "theory" doesn't state that an act done in imagination/game translates into the same act in reality. It states that an act done in a simulation does *prepare* you to do the same in reality. It's the old debate between reinforcement and catharsis: do I train myself to feel hate by simulating the bashing of a bad guy in the game, or do I get rid of my feelings of hate by simulating the bashing of the guy? Behavioral psychology believes in reinforcement (see pic, Bushman (20O2) for a well-known example); traditional psychology, psychoanalysis, talk therapy, etc. uses catharsis to give meaning and sublimate (among other things). Both have their uses, I'm guessing; I don't believe it is one or the other. If you think of it as emotions felt and scenarios that lead to specific emotions, yeah, it maybe doesn't translate into more murders in statistics, but rather into additional general rudeness, public rage, disrespect, etc. It probably depends also on the way the game is played and what the player feels. By the way, apparently, after the 2020 lockdowns, interpersonal violence and murders seem to be on the rise in Europe; same in the US, according to search engine first results.

Humans are designed to kill. What's the big deal? I don't think that complete suppression of youth/adolescent 'violence' is at all possible. Would you also ban boys from playing cops-and-robbers? Are you taking their foam swords away? When you have two cats fighting with each-other you're not supposed to separate them unless one is audibly distressed. This is the same principle you should take with your kids. Don't pathologize their perfectly healthy fascination with violence. Teach them not to hit other kids and they'll extrapolate the rest from there.

>>9564

>>9562 Humans are designed to kill. What's the big deal? I don't think that complete suppression of youth/adolescent 'violence' is at all possible. Would you also ban boys from playing cops-and-robbers? Are you taking their foam swords away? When you have two cats fighting with each-other you're not supposed to separate them unless one is audibly distressed. This is the same principle you should take with your kids. Don't pathologize their perfectly healthy fascination with violence. Teach them not to hit other kids and they'll extrapolate the rest from there.

>Would you also ban boys from playing cops-and-robbers? Are you taking their foam swords away? I don't have power over anyone so I don't entertain these (in my opinion useless) types of thought. I only deal with the responsibility I have towards myself and the people I meet, and yes, I did take away my own foam swords when I saw they were impacting my interaction with people.

>>9568

>>9564 >Would you also ban boys from playing cops-and-robbers? Are you taking their foam swords away? I don't have power over anyone so I don't entertain these (in my opinion useless) types of thought. I only deal with the responsibility I have towards myself and the people I meet, and yes, I did take away my own foam swords when I saw they were impacting my interaction with people.

>>9568

>>9564 >Would you also ban boys from playing cops-and-robbers? Are you taking their foam swords away? I don't have power over anyone so I don't entertain these (in my opinion useless) types of thought. I only deal with the responsibility I have towards myself and the people I meet, and yes, I did take away my own foam swords when I saw they were impacting my interaction with people.

If it's necessary to take away the foam swords, then take them away, but obviously it's best to have moderate exposure to things so you can develop healthier attitudes towards them than abstinence-only. At some point in the world someone's gonna get on your nerves and if your only solution to managing your crash-outs when playing violent video games is to sell your xbox, then I don't really see how you'd be in a better place to handle that real situation with emotional maturity either

>>9562

>>9561 The "theory" doesn't state that an act done in imagination/game translates into the same act in reality. It states that an act done in a simulation does *prepare* you to do the same in reality. It's the old debate between reinforcement and catharsis: do I train myself to feel hate by simulating the bashing of a bad guy in the game, or do I get rid of my feelings of hate by simulating the bashing of the guy? Behavioral psychology believes in reinforcement (see pic, Bushman (20O2) for a well-known example); traditional psychology, psychoanalysis, talk therapy, etc. uses catharsis to give meaning and sublimate (among other things). Both have their uses, I'm guessing; I don't believe it is one or the other. If you think of it as emotions felt and scenarios that lead to specific emotions, yeah, it maybe doesn't translate into more murders in statistics, but rather into additional general rudeness, public rage, disrespect, etc. It probably depends also on the way the game is played and what the player feels. By the way, apparently, after the 2020 lockdowns, interpersonal violence and murders seem to be on the rise in Europe; same in the US, according to search engine first results.

It's really good that you cited Bushman. He's a hack fraud. Seriously. He just spams Mormon concern-trolling and the fact that he gets by doing social psych in business schools is a damning statement of both social psych and business schools. You need to think about the granularity of the evidence you're invoking here. Even in Bushman can jerry-rig a social psych experiment to show what you want it to show, it still doesn't change the overall landscape of violent crime. You say that violent crime is on the rise in 2020. Are you seriously proposing that the social influence to know about 2020, as opposed to other years, is video games? Are you seriously proposing that the behavioral consequence of widespread global videogaming was somehow time-delayed for 2020? Really incredible stuff you've got going on there.

>>9562

>>9561 The "theory" doesn't state that an act done in imagination/game translates into the same act in reality. It states that an act done in a simulation does *prepare* you to do the same in reality. It's the old debate between reinforcement and catharsis: do I train myself to feel hate by simulating the bashing of a bad guy in the game, or do I get rid of my feelings of hate by simulating the bashing of the guy? Behavioral psychology believes in reinforcement (see pic, Bushman (20O2) for a well-known example); traditional psychology, psychoanalysis, talk therapy, etc. uses catharsis to give meaning and sublimate (among other things). Both have their uses, I'm guessing; I don't believe it is one or the other. If you think of it as emotions felt and scenarios that lead to specific emotions, yeah, it maybe doesn't translate into more murders in statistics, but rather into additional general rudeness, public rage, disrespect, etc. It probably depends also on the way the game is played and what the player feels. By the way, apparently, after the 2020 lockdowns, interpersonal violence and murders seem to be on the rise in Europe; same in the US, according to search engine first results.

Gonna give you a sampling of Bushman's retracted papers. You'll notice that they are all about video games and they all have the methodological flaws that are common to his social psych research: cooked data and endemic self-plagiarism.

Do you have any concept how much of a hack fraud you have to be to retract 3 social psych papers within 2 years?

1-800-COME-ON-NOW

As a postscript I want to say -- I'm not a fucking gamer! I hate gaming! I just hate pseuds too.

everyone on the internet eventually defaults to talking about the video games

>9570 >develop healthier attitudes towards them than abstinence-only What is the point in developing a healthy attitude to FPS lol? Should I really train for the time I'll get a sniper rifle and there'll be a hoard of Nazis Zombies coming towards me? This goes only one way, I observed: aggression in the game gets transposed IRL; aggression IRL I learn to deal with it as it comes; it is just not exaggerated by the game's aggression.

>>9580

>>9562 It's really good that you cited Bushman. He's a hack fraud. Seriously. He just spams Mormon concern-trolling and the fact that he gets by doing social psych in business schools is a damning statement of both social psych and business schools. You need to think about the granularity of the evidence you're invoking here. Even in Bushman can jerry-rig a social psych experiment to show what you want it to show, it still doesn't change the overall landscape of violent crime. You say that violent crime is on the rise in 2020. Are you seriously proposing that the social influence to know about 2020, as opposed to other years, is video games? Are you seriously proposing that the behavioral consequence of widespread global videogaming was somehow time-delayed for 2020? Really incredible stuff you've got going on there.

I didn't know, thanks! >You say that violent crime is on the rise in 2020. Are you seriously proposing that the social influence to know about 2020, as opposed to other years, is video games? I wasn't proposing anything, just saying that stats show that violence is on the rise after a decades-long decrease, unlike what was said earlier in the thread (same way you're adding a bit of information to the discussion by sharing that the Bushman paper has been retracted). What are we even talking about? The idea is that cultural consumption has an effect on behaviour. We're talking video games, but we could also talk about literature; we're talking violence, but we could also talk about more virtuous behaviours. Is this idea so far-fetched?

>>9594

>>9580 I didn't know, thanks! >You say that violent crime is on the rise in 2020. Are you seriously proposing that the social influence to know about 2020, as opposed to other years, is video games? I wasn't proposing anything, just saying that stats show that violence is on the rise after a decades-long decrease, unlike what was said earlier in the thread (same way you're adding a bit of information to the discussion by sharing that the Bushman paper has been retracted). What are we even talking about? The idea is that cultural consumption has an effect on behaviour. We're talking video games, but we could also talk about literature; we're talking violence, but we could also talk about more virtuous behaviours. Is this idea so far-fetched?

It's not a far-fetched thesis, but it's just at odds with observed reality. All our hard and anecdotal data alike show no correlation.

>>9596

>>9594 It's not a far-fetched thesis, but it's just at odds with observed reality. All our hard and anecdotal data alike show no correlation.

Actually anecdotal data says playing Doom -> Columbine.

>>9594

>>9580 I didn't know, thanks! >You say that violent crime is on the rise in 2020. Are you seriously proposing that the social influence to know about 2020, as opposed to other years, is video games? I wasn't proposing anything, just saying that stats show that violence is on the rise after a decades-long decrease, unlike what was said earlier in the thread (same way you're adding a bit of information to the discussion by sharing that the Bushman paper has been retracted). What are we even talking about? The idea is that cultural consumption has an effect on behaviour. We're talking video games, but we could also talk about literature; we're talking violence, but we could also talk about more virtuous behaviours. Is this idea so far-fetched?

You should feel embarrassed for having such a bad argument.

>>9493 (OP) I replaced Counter-Strike with an MMO and learned to cooperate and socialize with randoms online.

all of you are too neurotic to live

>>9612

all of you are too neurotic to live

Truth nuke

>>9612

all of you are too neurotic to live

rude

This thread was thought provoking. Do the same critiques or observations about the affects of video games on the psyche also translate to other mediums? I'd imagine the same argument can be made for all media, especially if engaged in repeatedly. If so;are some forms better than others? If I read lots of philosophy am I not training my brain and outlook to find meanings that may not be obvious or connections that may not be there? Does that make my life better in any measure beyond subjective depth, is that any more likely to make me a "better" person? Is it any worse then running a virtual theme park?

>>9617

This thread was thought provoking. Do the same critiques or observations about the affects of video games on the psyche also translate to other mediums? I'd imagine the same argument can be made for all media, especially if engaged in repeatedly. If so;are some forms better than others? If I read lots of philosophy am I not training my brain and outlook to find meanings that may not be obvious or connections that may not be there? Does that make my life better in any measure beyond subjective depth, is that any more likely to make me a "better" person? Is it any worse then running a virtual theme park?

People used to say this sort of thing about books. I can remember similar arguments being made about Wuthering Heights for example, and then there are famous instances of banned books like Lady Chatterley's Lover. Of course it's all irrelevant now because people don't read anything.

>>9617

This thread was thought provoking. Do the same critiques or observations about the affects of video games on the psyche also translate to other mediums? I'd imagine the same argument can be made for all media, especially if engaged in repeatedly. If so;are some forms better than others? If I read lots of philosophy am I not training my brain and outlook to find meanings that may not be obvious or connections that may not be there? Does that make my life better in any measure beyond subjective depth, is that any more likely to make me a "better" person? Is it any worse then running a virtual theme park?

>>9618

>>9617 People used to say this sort of thing about books. I can remember similar arguments being made about Wuthering Heights for example, and then there are famous instances of banned books like Lady Chatterley's Lover. Of course it's all irrelevant now because people don't read anything.

this is what northanger abbey is about

>>9618

>>9617 People used to say this sort of thing about books. I can remember similar arguments being made about Wuthering Heights for example, and then there are famous instances of banned books like Lady Chatterley's Lover. Of course it's all irrelevant now because people don't read anything.

"It was a novel without a plot and with only one character, being, indeed, simply a psychological study of a certain young Parisian who spent his life trying to realize in the nineteenth century all the passions and modes of thought that belonged to every century except his own, and to sum up, as it were, in himself the various moods through which the world-spirit had ever passed, loving for their mere artificiality those renunciations that men have unwisely called virtue, as much as those natural rebellions that wise men still call sin. The style in which it was written was that curious jewelled style, vivid and obscure at once, full of argot and of archaisms, of technical expressions and of elaborate paraphrases, that characterizes the work of some of the finest artists of the French school of Symbolistes. There were in it metaphors as monstrous as orchids and as subtle in colour. The life of the senses was described in the terms of mystical philosophy. One hardly knew at times whether one was reading the spiritual ecstasies of some mediæval saint or the morbid confessions of a modern sinner. It was a poisonous book. The heavy odour of incense seemed to cling about its pages and to trouble the brain. The mere cadence of the sentences, the subtle monotony of their music, so full as it was of complex refrains and movements elaborately repeated, produced in the mind of the lad, as he passed from chapter to chapter, a form of reverie, a malady of dreaming, that made him unconscious of the falling day and creeping shadows."

>>9622

>>9618 "It was a novel without a plot and with only one character, being, indeed, simply a psychological study of a certain young Parisian who spent his life trying to realize in the nineteenth century all the passions and modes of thought that belonged to every century except his own, and to sum up, as it were, in himself the various moods through which the world-spirit had ever passed, loving for their mere artificiality those renunciations that men have unwisely called virtue, as much as those natural rebellions that wise men still call sin. The style in which it was written was that curious jewelled style, vivid and obscure at once, full of argot and of archaisms, of technical expressions and of elaborate paraphrases, that characterizes the work of some of the finest artists of the French school of Symbolistes. There were in it metaphors as monstrous as orchids and as subtle in colour. The life of the senses was described in the terms of mystical philosophy. One hardly knew at times whether one was reading the spiritual ecstasies of some mediæval saint or the morbid confessions of a modern sinner. It was a poisonous book. The heavy odour of incense seemed to cling about its pages and to trouble the brain. The mere cadence of the sentences, the subtle monotony of their music, so full as it was of complex refrains and movements elaborately repeated, produced in the mind of the lad, as he passed from chapter to chapter, a form of reverie, a malady of dreaming, that made him unconscious of the falling day and creeping shadows."

this has to be A Rebours

>>9622

>>9618 "It was a novel without a plot and with only one character, being, indeed, simply a psychological study of a certain young Parisian who spent his life trying to realize in the nineteenth century all the passions and modes of thought that belonged to every century except his own, and to sum up, as it were, in himself the various moods through which the world-spirit had ever passed, loving for their mere artificiality those renunciations that men have unwisely called virtue, as much as those natural rebellions that wise men still call sin. The style in which it was written was that curious jewelled style, vivid and obscure at once, full of argot and of archaisms, of technical expressions and of elaborate paraphrases, that characterizes the work of some of the finest artists of the French school of Symbolistes. There were in it metaphors as monstrous as orchids and as subtle in colour. The life of the senses was described in the terms of mystical philosophy. One hardly knew at times whether one was reading the spiritual ecstasies of some mediæval saint or the morbid confessions of a modern sinner. It was a poisonous book. The heavy odour of incense seemed to cling about its pages and to trouble the brain. The mere cadence of the sentences, the subtle monotony of their music, so full as it was of complex refrains and movements elaborately repeated, produced in the mind of the lad, as he passed from chapter to chapter, a form of reverie, a malady of dreaming, that made him unconscious of the falling day and creeping shadows."

>>9623

>>9622 this has to be A Rebours

I looked it up and it's from Dorian Grey.... and apparently scholars reckon it's about A Rebours, even though it isn't stated, so I claim that as a win. The phrase 'monstrous as orchids' makes more sense when you learn that it's a Wilde book. A man who, one imagines, "[thought] the carrot infinitely more fascinating than the geranium".

I wasn't necessarily bad at video games, but I wasn't very good throughout my childhood/adolescence. Pretty mediocre, I would say. Interestingly, I dropped vidya as soon as I went to college and got a gf. Like, I never ever found the same pleasure in a video game again. It was an immediate demarcating experience. Although, I will say that I was generally finding vidya less pleasurable over time during high school, but still enjoyed the occasional game. I don't think I've seriously played a video game in the past 5+ years now. However, sometimes I get the urge to try booting up an emulator to try something like Chrono Trigger or Final Fantasy.

>>9636

I wasn't necessarily bad at video games, but I wasn't very good throughout my childhood/adolescence. Pretty mediocre, I would say. Interestingly, I dropped vidya as soon as I went to college and got a gf. Like, I never ever found the same pleasure in a video game again. It was an immediate demarcating experience. Although, I will say that I was generally finding vidya less pleasurable over time during high school, but still enjoyed the occasional game. I don't think I've seriously played a video game in the past 5+ years now. However, sometimes I get the urge to try booting up an emulator to try something like Chrono Trigger or Final Fantasy.

I had this same experience with college but once I hit 1 year with my gf they started creeping back into my life. I expect every life transition to be the point that I stop liking them but it never happens. I feel like if I had diverted this energy towards my productive interests I'd be a millionaire by now

>>9636

I wasn't necessarily bad at video games, but I wasn't very good throughout my childhood/adolescence. Pretty mediocre, I would say. Interestingly, I dropped vidya as soon as I went to college and got a gf. Like, I never ever found the same pleasure in a video game again. It was an immediate demarcating experience. Although, I will say that I was generally finding vidya less pleasurable over time during high school, but still enjoyed the occasional game. I don't think I've seriously played a video game in the past 5+ years now. However, sometimes I get the urge to try booting up an emulator to try something like Chrono Trigger or Final Fantasy.

Have you had any interest in less competitive and more story based games? I really enjoyed the world building, dialog and VO of Disco Elysium, (admittedly I still need to finish it, and being fairly baked helped disarm me, so perhaps that's why I was so moved.) I promise I'm not proselytizing capital G gaming. I find myself much less inclined towards all video games these days.

>>9731

>>9636 Have you had any interest in less competitive and more story based games? I really enjoyed the world building, dialog and VO of Disco Elysium, (admittedly I still need to finish it, and being fairly baked helped disarm me, so perhaps that's why I was so moved.) I promise I'm not proselytizing capital G gaming. I find myself much less inclined towards all video games these days.

Not really. Disco Elysium seems like something I would have been interested in during my late stage vidya playing. I loved the Fallout games, mostly due to that "world building" aspect. I think if I were to be interested in anything now though it would mostly be in a "playing with someone" context. Damn, I miss playing Halo with my amigos. >>9637

>>9636 I had this same experience with college but once I hit 1 year with my gf they started creeping back into my life. I expect every life transition to be the point that I stop liking them but it never happens. I feel like if I had diverted this energy towards my productive interests I'd be a millionaire by now

I think I've substituted it with mostly just internet lurking, which is equally as unproductive.

>>9637

>>9636 I had this same experience with college but once I hit 1 year with my gf they started creeping back into my life. I expect every life transition to be the point that I stop liking them but it never happens. I feel like if I had diverted this energy towards my productive interests I'd be a millionaire by now

I have this thing where when I start getting good at something I quit. math was never my subject but this one time I studied for 8 hours straight before a test and got a perfect score. didn't study like that since. not in school not in college. it's like my brain realised "oh we can excel at this. well the knowledge that we can is enough. im satiated. let's move on to other, seemingly unconquerable endeavours" it's not just an ego thing though, i lose interest in things pretty fast. was into dancing, even went to audition for a dance thing. quit. started to figure out how to play music by ear on the piano, figured out the London bridge rhyme and introductory notes of fur elise. quit. got a bit better with ukulele. quit. wanted to put on more weight, ate more despite not having an appetite, started seeing results, quit. I'm so envious of autistic people who fall in love with one thing and just stick to it. i oscillate between trying to pick that one thing that I could anchor myself and telling myself that I'm just not the kind of person who can be content with one thing. it's like I want a taste of everything and that's it. I hate it. i really wish I wasn't like this. literal avoidance in my blood

>>9738

>>9637 I have this thing where when I start getting good at something I quit. math was never my subject but this one time I studied for 8 hours straight before a test and got a perfect score. didn't study like that since. not in school not in college. it's like my brain realised "oh we can excel at this. well the knowledge that we can is enough. im satiated. let's move on to other, seemingly unconquerable endeavours" it's not just an ego thing though, i lose interest in things pretty fast. was into dancing, even went to audition for a dance thing. quit. started to figure out how to play music by ear on the piano, figured out the London bridge rhyme and introductory notes of fur elise. quit. got a bit better with ukulele. quit. wanted to put on more weight, ate more despite not having an appetite, started seeing results, quit. I'm so envious of autistic people who fall in love with one thing and just stick to it. i oscillate between trying to pick that one thing that I could anchor myself and telling myself that I'm just not the kind of person who can be content with one thing. it's like I want a taste of everything and that's it. I hate it. i really wish I wasn't like this. literal avoidance in my blood

I think this is a natural reaction to novelty and 'beginner gains'. It is good that you are trying out different things in life, and I think it is likely that one day a lasting passion will come to you.

>>9742

>>9738 I think this is a natural reaction to novelty and 'beginner gains'. It is good that you are trying out different things in life, and I think it is likely that one day a lasting passion will come to you.

I hope so

>>9738

>>9637 I have this thing where when I start getting good at something I quit. math was never my subject but this one time I studied for 8 hours straight before a test and got a perfect score. didn't study like that since. not in school not in college. it's like my brain realised "oh we can excel at this. well the knowledge that we can is enough. im satiated. let's move on to other, seemingly unconquerable endeavours" it's not just an ego thing though, i lose interest in things pretty fast. was into dancing, even went to audition for a dance thing. quit. started to figure out how to play music by ear on the piano, figured out the London bridge rhyme and introductory notes of fur elise. quit. got a bit better with ukulele. quit. wanted to put on more weight, ate more despite not having an appetite, started seeing results, quit. I'm so envious of autistic people who fall in love with one thing and just stick to it. i oscillate between trying to pick that one thing that I could anchor myself and telling myself that I'm just not the kind of person who can be content with one thing. it's like I want a taste of everything and that's it. I hate it. i really wish I wasn't like this. literal avoidance in my blood

>I'm so envious of autistic people who fall in love with one thing and just stick to it. This feeling is pretty common I believe. Looks like a wish for being part of something bigger than you, so much that it would rob you of some agency and compel you to devote yourself to it. The traditional way of satisfying it are always available (love someone more than yourself (spouse, children, god, your neighbor etc.) that will guide you onto a path, and/or pick a cause, but usually these are born out of love too). I am (sometimes) a bit jealous of friends with children. They don't like very much their lives as parents despite loving their offspring, nor their jobs and career, but I recognize they have a drive I don't have regarding to these things (earning money, owning a house, preparing for retirement) because they work for something greater than themselves (their family).

>>9750

>>9738 >I'm so envious of autistic people who fall in love with one thing and just stick to it. This feeling is pretty common I believe. Looks like a wish for being part of something bigger than you, so much that it would rob you of some agency and compel you to devote yourself to it. The traditional way of satisfying it are always available (love someone more than yourself (spouse, children, god, your neighbor etc.) that will guide you onto a path, and/or pick a cause, but usually these are born out of love too). I am (sometimes) a bit jealous of friends with children. They don't like very much their lives as parents despite loving their offspring, nor their jobs and career, but I recognize they have a drive I don't have regarding to these things (earning money, owning a house, preparing for retirement) because they work for something greater than themselves (their family).

i wonder if this is why many people choose to have kids. like an extreme one stop solution to force stability in (almost) all aspects of life