Enough time has passed that we can concede that the primary output of this contingent was just glorified nostalgia, little different than what followed in its wake (Hypnagogia, Liminality...). There's nothing radical about elevating folk horror and cartoons: it's cowardice.
Anonymous :
16 days ago :
No.9337
>>9344
>>9337
"Hauntology is a cowardly move, lusting after utopias that never were, or which are now unreachable, a retreat into childhood/youth, just as trapped in the endless re-iterative mechanistics of the postmodern as the lowest form of retroism, merely in a hyper-self-aware form. In summary, hauntology cedes too much ground to what it attempts to oppose, because of an a priori assumption: that there is nothing else, (at this moment in time at least) that nothing else is possible, and as such we are to make the best of this (and that the best we can do is to hint at the possible which remains forever out of reach — with all the pseudo-messianic dimensions this involves)."
What do you mean by cowardice?
Anonymous :
16 days ago :
No.9338
>>9345
>>9338
Hauntology is Derrida
But in general, I oppose the Fisherian conclusion. I think the "cancellation of the future" comes down to a few things
1. Fisher projecting his own sordid mental state. His suicide is essential context to his body of work.
2. The 20th century was propelled forward by rapid developments in technology which are (maybe) slowing down now. 'You couldn't imagine it being produced before' mostly describes the process of perfecting synthesizers.
2. There was a legitimate cultural lull in the 2000s as compared to the rapid developments of the 20th century. This lull is harder to defend now. There's an explosion of interesting new media if you make an effort to "leave the resort" so to speak.
2.25. As a critical theorist, Mark's idea of the New was mostly understood as driven through subversion and deconstruction. There is only so much juice you can squeeze from this particular approach, and he is significantly less interested in New things that are simply New and not backwards, inside-out, or mangled versions of the Old.
2.5. Old people simply have no interest in new forms of media. Fisher was born in 1968. Find me a Gen Xer that "gets" SOPHIE, 100 Gecs, Homestuck, Bladee, WBE, fishtanklive, xaviersobased, Cumtown, whatever (mentions =/= endorsements).
2.75. Mentioning 100 Gecs and Mark Fisher in the same breath reveals a tension behind his whole Jungle thesis: it's not so much that he's looking for new music as much as new music that he enjoys. The future isn't cancelled so much as it is more broccoli-haired than the olds may have hoped.
2.8. Ultimately, the "slow cancellation of the future" represents not a particular political reality, but a universal psychological phenomenon. As you age, the world slows down around you.
The term was originally coined by Fisher to describe precisely that, media which evokes and corrupts the past, no? So of course it is 'just nostalgia' because it is nostalgia by definition.
I suspect what is happening here is that people latched onto the term as a visual aesthetic description ('spooky VHS', 'lost media') and the academic critique was lost. Roughly the same distillation of meaning happened with vaporwave which was even more savagely Flanderized by the masses. But I am not sure what 'hauntology' OP is referring to if not Fisher's concept.
How does one corrupt the past? By definition, it is produced by whatever the present says of it? What am I missing
>>9337
What do you mean by cowardice?
"Hauntology is a cowardly move, lusting after utopias that never were, or which are now unreachable, a retreat into childhood/youth, just as trapped in the endless re-iterative mechanistics of the postmodern as the lowest form of retroism, merely in a hyper-self-aware form. In summary, hauntology cedes too much ground to what it attempts to oppose, because of an a priori assumption: that there is nothing else, (at this moment in time at least) that nothing else is possible, and as such we are to make the best of this (and that the best we can do is to hint at the possible which remains forever out of reach — with all the pseudo-messianic dimensions this involves)."
Anonymous :
15 days ago :
No.9345
>>9348
>>9345
Thank you for the correction, I will catch up on Derrida.
>>9338
The term was originally coined by Fisher to describe precisely that, media which evokes and corrupts the past, no? So of course it is 'just nostalgia' because it is nostalgia by definition.
I suspect what is happening here is that people latched onto the term as a visual aesthetic description ('spooky VHS', 'lost media') and the academic critique was lost. Roughly the same distillation of meaning happened with vaporwave which was even more savagely Flanderized by the masses. But I am not sure what 'hauntology' OP is referring to if not Fisher's concept.
Hauntology is Derrida
But in general, I oppose the Fisherian conclusion. I think the "cancellation of the future" comes down to a few things
1. Fisher projecting his own sordid mental state. His suicide is essential context to his body of work.
2. The 20th century was propelled forward by rapid developments in technology which are (maybe) slowing down now. 'You couldn't imagine it being produced before' mostly describes the process of perfecting synthesizers.
2. There was a legitimate cultural lull in the 2000s as compared to the rapid developments of the 20th century. This lull is harder to defend now. There's an explosion of interesting new media if you make an effort to "leave the resort" so to speak.
2.25. As a critical theorist, Mark's idea of the New was mostly understood as driven through subversion and deconstruction. There is only so much juice you can squeeze from this particular approach, and he is significantly less interested in New things that are simply New and not backwards, inside-out, or mangled versions of the Old.
2.5. Old people simply have no interest in new forms of media. Fisher was born in 1968. Find me a Gen Xer that "gets" SOPHIE, 100 Gecs, Homestuck, Bladee, WBE, fishtanklive, xaviersobased, Cumtown, whatever (mentions =/= endorsements).
2.75. Mentioning 100 Gecs and Mark Fisher in the same breath reveals a tension behind his whole Jungle thesis: it's not so much that he's looking for new music as much as new music that he enjoys. The future isn't cancelled so much as it is more broccoli-haired than the olds may have hoped.
2.8. Ultimately, the "slow cancellation of the future" represents not a particular political reality, but a universal psychological phenomenon. As you age, the world slows down around you.
For the record, in terms of musical merit Leyland Kirby and Philip Jeck still hold upon, with thematic cachet as well. Burial is solid but always felt distant from the concept (or, in other words, Fisher burdened Burial with theory to sublimate his enjoyment thereof - the foibles of the man are readily apparent in his work.) It's when you get to Ghost Box and such that it all falls apart.
>>9345
>>9338
Hauntology is Derrida
But in general, I oppose the Fisherian conclusion. I think the "cancellation of the future" comes down to a few things
1. Fisher projecting his own sordid mental state. His suicide is essential context to his body of work.
2. The 20th century was propelled forward by rapid developments in technology which are (maybe) slowing down now. 'You couldn't imagine it being produced before' mostly describes the process of perfecting synthesizers.
2. There was a legitimate cultural lull in the 2000s as compared to the rapid developments of the 20th century. This lull is harder to defend now. There's an explosion of interesting new media if you make an effort to "leave the resort" so to speak.
2.25. As a critical theorist, Mark's idea of the New was mostly understood as driven through subversion and deconstruction. There is only so much juice you can squeeze from this particular approach, and he is significantly less interested in New things that are simply New and not backwards, inside-out, or mangled versions of the Old.
2.5. Old people simply have no interest in new forms of media. Fisher was born in 1968. Find me a Gen Xer that "gets" SOPHIE, 100 Gecs, Homestuck, Bladee, WBE, fishtanklive, xaviersobased, Cumtown, whatever (mentions =/= endorsements).
2.75. Mentioning 100 Gecs and Mark Fisher in the same breath reveals a tension behind his whole Jungle thesis: it's not so much that he's looking for new music as much as new music that he enjoys. The future isn't cancelled so much as it is more broccoli-haired than the olds may have hoped.
2.8. Ultimately, the "slow cancellation of the future" represents not a particular political reality, but a universal psychological phenomenon. As you age, the world slows down around you.
Thank you for the correction, I will catch up on Derrida.
Mark Fischer hated the Arctic Monkeys so much that he poisoned millennials' abilities to learn proper French theory in grad school.