there's something about being in an office that makes me wanna end it. it wouldn't be so bad if me and all my uni friends worked together but we won't so it's disorienting, I've become used to the sense of community and can't cope with the lack of it the way other people do. also I've never had a good boss. I'm still applying to office jobs and not even getting interviews. hilarious why not blue collar? another 4 year commitment (apprenticeship) + I like not having back pain or lung damage from fumes + I don't have enough of tough skin to deal with misogyny on a daily basis I'm convinced that there's a perfect job for me out there but how would I know what it is unless I have it and how would I have it unless I know about it
I'm not meant for white collar or blue collar, there has got to be another collar, right? :
Anonymous :
50 days ago :
No.8699
>>8709
>>8699 (OP)
the "green collar" (outdoor recreation, agriculture, environmental sciences, and so on) work world may interest you. personally i think it's the best of both worlds, but it comes with its own host of problems.
>>8968>>8699 (OP)
You and me my friend were meant to die in a war in some foreign land. What are you waiting for?
there is the service industry but that has its own problems and not a very reliable ticket to the middle classes
I'm in a laptop jockey position now and I dearly miss my blue collar job.
Have you actually worked blue collar before or are you predicting the misogyny beforehand? "Blue collar" is a very wide, nebulous term and it depends what field you want to go into, even varies team by team.
Anonymous :
50 days ago :
No.8703
>>8705
>>8703
Well, it's kind of tautological; if you feel like you're not going to make it in blue collar, you aren't going to make it, because your heart isn't into it. I could write a book but I will do my best to distill my thoughts here:
- Men by nature are misogynist. I think you got shielded from this in large part in academia, where the biases that men DO have (because they do have them, never fool yourself) are well-hidden for professional and intellectual reasons
- White collar jobs are NOT absent from misogyny in the least and again, academia is an outlier in that regard. Tech jobs are just the start, anything in finance or law can be arguably more poisonous than tech.
- Even if you find a "white collar" job that is not a sausagefest or even female-dominated, it does not mean you won't receive attrition for your gender, it'll just come from some other women and their incessant, inevitable need to bully one another into a pecking order. That, and female-oriented office jobs are both lower-paying, lower prestige, less intellectual (which you will miss from academia) and by far the most at risk by automation, something that has been true for 100 years of technological improvement and will not stop accelerating any time soon.
- Blue collar men are more likely than white collar ones to "give credit where credit is due"; that is, if you can stick it out and prove objectively that you are doing the job, they will eventually relent to some extent, and may even accept you into their fold. There is a greater degree of meritocracy - yes that means a lot of the RSP flavor of blue collar noble savaging is true in many ways.
- I hate discouraging you, but you will burn out because you start because you aren't interested in the job for anything else other than having a job for the sake of it. I took up a blue collar job because I wanted something simple and I love to work with my hands. You definitely have to be a certain kind of woman to want to go into it, and unless you feel like you can mold your personality into that (and I'm not getting that impression from you, I mean that with all sincerity), you should look elsewhere. Worse than going into this field and failing are going into it and half-assing it and confirming the latent bias of all your male coworkers that women never want to work hard and push themselves.
- There are niches of employment that aren't, you know, lugging steel frames around or working with power tools. For example, if you are artistically inclined, you can work in theater arts such as stage scenery, costumes, or props. If you like gardening, you can go into horticulture or something farming-related (and farmers/ranchers undoubtedly respect their female compatriots who walk the walk). And so on and so forth.
Okay, that was longer than I wanted. tl;dr no you're not probably going to be an HVAC warrior unless you really desire it and probably should look into one of the many jobs out there that exist somewhere between academic paper-scanner and hard manual labor.
I didn't do enough research about the field I got my degree in so I decided I'm not gonna make that mistake while contemplating blue collar. I read about women's experiences (in different fields, yes. working in a garage, HVAC etc) and while there are way more women working in blue collar than I thought it is true that they do deal with misogyny a lot (and sexual harrasment when they're more unlucky). it also happens that a lot of the times the misogyny isn't even aimed at them, it's their male coworkers talking shit about their wives which can become unbearable. there are fields where male coworkers are not a problem but the customers always are.
Anonymous :
50 days ago :
No.8705
>>8718
>>8709
i would say:
1) a great deal of employment in the field is based upon seasonal positions. this means you basically can only work in the spring/summer/fall. some people have historically taken advantage of this by applying for unemployment in the off season and living a kind of bum lifestyle, but many states and the fed are cracking down on whether seasonal work is applicable for unemployment benefits. and, if you're someone who doesn't want to be on the dole, there is a serious looming question of where you might live and work for a large chunk of the year.
the seasonal lifestyle can also be advantageous because you have the flexibility to go wherever and aren't really tied to one employer or location forever. i would say that's how most people utilize it, but that means it only attracts the kind of person who finds this conducive to their being, which aren't always the responsible type.
on a more practically note, seasonal employment isn't governed by many of the "protections" that are attached to normal full time employment. health insurance is a bonus. many pay well, but a great deal know that the applicants really want to do this kind of thing do they don't have an incentive to increase wages very much. i think one simply has to do some research before jumping in.
2) it's definitely a male dominated field. there's a lot of people who think themselves to be Jack London or yeomen or whatever. i cannot readily speak to misogyny, being a man, but there's definitely some grating personalities, who respect only themselves. on the other hand, people from all walks decide to do a season of field work, so you'll find a lot of interesting stories and people.
i agree with >>8705, i had a job once working on ranches, messing with their water wells, and my boss was a woman, and she definitely commanded the respect of the ranchers, even though she was an outsider (and this was in a very insular community with strong ethnic divisions) and a scientist foremost. i think it was mostly because she wasn't afraid to make a bailing wire fence or rassle up some cows if necessary in the call of duty.
3) somewhat a combination of the two, i think it's easy to not see where the end is or how you'll survive beyond your 20s and 30s. i can't speak to the more specialized areas of the "green" world, where i imagine there's better regimented hierarchy, (in say, a scientific lab for soil analysis), but you can find it to be a world of arrested development in a way. just people mostly winging it. the trust fund kids are ergo very annoying, and naturally there's a good amount of rich kids who get into the outdoors and can survive off their background without worrying about the consequences of the above points (or float to an office job with their field work as Linked In posts later in life). it's not a world conducive to a set path or natural progression. and the older people i met who work in the outdoors or adjacent fields mostly just moved into the office and constantly lamented that fact.
with all this said, i wish i had stayed in the field, but a combination of frustration, desire for novelty, and the jobs drying up due to the US fed problems, i am now simply a wagie at a shift job. always searching for open positions, but i'm probably moving across the country soon and can't commit to a season.
>>8703
I didn't do enough research about the field I got my degree in so I decided I'm not gonna make that mistake while contemplating blue collar. I read about women's experiences (in different fields, yes. working in a garage, HVAC etc) and while there are way more women working in blue collar than I thought it is true that they do deal with misogyny a lot (and sexual harrasment when they're more unlucky). it also happens that a lot of the times the misogyny isn't even aimed at them, it's their male coworkers talking shit about their wives which can become unbearable. there are fields where male coworkers are not a problem but the customers always are.
Well, it's kind of tautological; if you feel like you're not going to make it in blue collar, you aren't going to make it, because your heart isn't into it. I could write a book but I will do my best to distill my thoughts here:
- Men by nature are misogynist. I think you got shielded from this in large part in academia, where the biases that men DO have (because they do have them, never fool yourself) are well-hidden for professional and intellectual reasons
- White collar jobs are NOT absent from misogyny in the least and again, academia is an outlier in that regard. Tech jobs are just the start, anything in finance or law can be arguably more poisonous than tech.
- Even if you find a "white collar" job that is not a sausagefest or even female-dominated, it does not mean you won't receive attrition for your gender, it'll just come from some other women and their incessant, inevitable need to bully one another into a pecking order. That, and female-oriented office jobs are both lower-paying, lower prestige, less intellectual (which you will miss from academia) and by far the most at risk by automation, something that has been true for 100 years of technological improvement and will not stop accelerating any time soon.
- Blue collar men are more likely than white collar ones to "give credit where credit is due"; that is, if you can stick it out and prove objectively that you are doing the job, they will eventually relent to some extent, and may even accept you into their fold. There is a greater degree of meritocracy - yes that means a lot of the RSP flavor of blue collar noble savaging is true in many ways.
- I hate discouraging you, but you will burn out because you start because you aren't interested in the job for anything else other than having a job for the sake of it. I took up a blue collar job because I wanted something simple and I love to work with my hands. You definitely have to be a certain kind of woman to want to go into it, and unless you feel like you can mold your personality into that (and I'm not getting that impression from you, I mean that with all sincerity), you should look elsewhere. Worse than going into this field and failing are going into it and half-assing it and confirming the latent bias of all your male coworkers that women never want to work hard and push themselves.
- There are niches of employment that aren't, you know, lugging steel frames around or working with power tools. For example, if you are artistically inclined, you can work in theater arts such as stage scenery, costumes, or props. If you like gardening, you can go into horticulture or something farming-related (and farmers/ranchers undoubtedly respect their female compatriots who walk the walk). And so on and so forth.
Okay, that was longer than I wanted. tl;dr no you're not probably going to be an HVAC warrior unless you really desire it and probably should look into one of the many jobs out there that exist somewhere between academic paper-scanner and hard manual labor.
In my experience (as a guy) there really isn't any place you will get any more shielded from misogyny than regulated corporate office job, save for a job that's utterly and totally dominated by women. This sort of white collar environment has these amazingly bloated HR departments, whistleblowing programs and few people smart enough to get there will risk saying anything as much as slightly out-there in a group, let alone pull something like that. That's not to say it's 100% absent, but nor will it ever be. Frankly, I have some trouble believing claim that academia is more free from it, but maybe that's because where I live academia is more like a feudal system and I lack comparison with it out in the west.
I would like to selfishly hijack this thread, for no reason other than OP being posted at extremely convenient moment, as this topic has been close to my heart past weeks and months. Last year after prolonged period of being employment-deprived I hit it big: I scored reasonably well paid entry level job in my field, at the big institution. Terms and conditions are pretty good, I barely work more than 40 a week, and it is exactly the "foot in the door" I needed. It is not glamorous job, it's corporate back office although by all means it is sufficient, and at times fairly chill. And yet I can't escape a nagging desire to ruin first good thing to have happened to me in a long while, I kind of hit it big considering my situation. That it is not for me, that I do not fit in there with these people, that I haven't really even liked my field of study in many years now and have wasted better part of the last decade of my life by not applying myself and taking this path of "respectable" least resistance that will lead me into death of mediocority. Now, this is all delusional. If for no other reason that there is no brilliant opportunity for better life looming on the horizon, it is all imagined and had I have any latent talent or predisposition for anything else I wouldn't be in this position, for one does not simply wake up in their late twenties to realisation taht every single turn and corner taken just so happen to be wrong. So while what I have is objectively ok and enviable even in these trying times, and it seems stable enough (until they move the job to southeast asia, or ai does not inf act pop) I can't help but feel delusions of grandeour doing this boring superflous corporate job (that's not to say I'm very competent or anything lol) that produces little of any value, sitting there and not vibing with people as they unironcially debate burgers at different vendors or whatever. There is no rational basis for this anxiety, how do I not burn all this down at first opportunity, how to defeat this nagging feeling I've been running out of runway?
>how do I not burn all this down at first opportunity, how to defeat this nagging feeling I've been running out of runway?
My theory is that you have to do this at least once in your life, lest you spend your whole life being tempted by the greener grass, never knowing the price of these choices. Hopefully, you do it in your twenties, but you have to do it at some point. The lesson that comes from betting and losing big in life is priceless (because even if the grass is actually greener, you always lose something in exchange, and you never know what it is until it's too late).
Anonymous :
50 days ago :
No.8709
>>8711
>>8709
>it comes with its own host of problems.
What are they?
>>8718>>8709
i would say:
1) a great deal of employment in the field is based upon seasonal positions. this means you basically can only work in the spring/summer/fall. some people have historically taken advantage of this by applying for unemployment in the off season and living a kind of bum lifestyle, but many states and the fed are cracking down on whether seasonal work is applicable for unemployment benefits. and, if you're someone who doesn't want to be on the dole, there is a serious looming question of where you might live and work for a large chunk of the year.
the seasonal lifestyle can also be advantageous because you have the flexibility to go wherever and aren't really tied to one employer or location forever. i would say that's how most people utilize it, but that means it only attracts the kind of person who finds this conducive to their being, which aren't always the responsible type.
on a more practically note, seasonal employment isn't governed by many of the "protections" that are attached to normal full time employment. health insurance is a bonus. many pay well, but a great deal know that the applicants really want to do this kind of thing do they don't have an incentive to increase wages very much. i think one simply has to do some research before jumping in.
2) it's definitely a male dominated field. there's a lot of people who think themselves to be Jack London or yeomen or whatever. i cannot readily speak to misogyny, being a man, but there's definitely some grating personalities, who respect only themselves. on the other hand, people from all walks decide to do a season of field work, so you'll find a lot of interesting stories and people.
i agree with >>8705, i had a job once working on ranches, messing with their water wells, and my boss was a woman, and she definitely commanded the respect of the ranchers, even though she was an outsider (and this was in a very insular community with strong ethnic divisions) and a scientist foremost. i think it was mostly because she wasn't afraid to make a bailing wire fence or rassle up some cows if necessary in the call of duty.
3) somewhat a combination of the two, i think it's easy to not see where the end is or how you'll survive beyond your 20s and 30s. i can't speak to the more specialized areas of the "green" world, where i imagine there's better regimented hierarchy, (in say, a scientific lab for soil analysis), but you can find it to be a world of arrested development in a way. just people mostly winging it. the trust fund kids are ergo very annoying, and naturally there's a good amount of rich kids who get into the outdoors and can survive off their background without worrying about the consequences of the above points (or float to an office job with their field work as Linked In posts later in life). it's not a world conducive to a set path or natural progression. and the older people i met who work in the outdoors or adjacent fields mostly just moved into the office and constantly lamented that fact.
with all this said, i wish i had stayed in the field, but a combination of frustration, desire for novelty, and the jobs drying up due to the US fed problems, i am now simply a wagie at a shift job. always searching for open positions, but i'm probably moving across the country soon and can't commit to a season.
>>8699 (OP)
the "green collar" (outdoor recreation, agriculture, environmental sciences, and so on) work world may interest you. personally i think it's the best of both worlds, but it comes with its own host of problems.
>>8709
>>8699 (OP)
the "green collar" (outdoor recreation, agriculture, environmental sciences, and so on) work world may interest you. personally i think it's the best of both worlds, but it comes with its own host of problems.
>it comes with its own host of problems.
What are they?
>>8709
>>8699 (OP)
the "green collar" (outdoor recreation, agriculture, environmental sciences, and so on) work world may interest you. personally i think it's the best of both worlds, but it comes with its own host of problems.
i would say:
1) a great deal of employment in the field is based upon seasonal positions. this means you basically can only work in the spring/summer/fall. some people have historically taken advantage of this by applying for unemployment in the off season and living a kind of bum lifestyle, but many states and the fed are cracking down on whether seasonal work is applicable for unemployment benefits. and, if you're someone who doesn't want to be on the dole, there is a serious looming question of where you might live and work for a large chunk of the year.
the seasonal lifestyle can also be advantageous because you have the flexibility to go wherever and aren't really tied to one employer or location forever. i would say that's how most people utilize it, but that means it only attracts the kind of person who finds this conducive to their being, which aren't always the responsible type.
on a more practically note, seasonal employment isn't governed by many of the "protections" that are attached to normal full time employment. health insurance is a bonus. many pay well, but a great deal know that the applicants really want to do this kind of thing do they don't have an incentive to increase wages very much. i think one simply has to do some research before jumping in.
2) it's definitely a male dominated field. there's a lot of people who think themselves to be Jack London or yeomen or whatever. i cannot readily speak to misogyny, being a man, but there's definitely some grating personalities, who respect only themselves. on the other hand, people from all walks decide to do a season of field work, so you'll find a lot of interesting stories and people.
i agree with >>8705>>8703
Well, it's kind of tautological; if you feel like you're not going to make it in blue collar, you aren't going to make it, because your heart isn't into it. I could write a book but I will do my best to distill my thoughts here:
- Men by nature are misogynist. I think you got shielded from this in large part in academia, where the biases that men DO have (because they do have them, never fool yourself) are well-hidden for professional and intellectual reasons
- White collar jobs are NOT absent from misogyny in the least and again, academia is an outlier in that regard. Tech jobs are just the start, anything in finance or law can be arguably more poisonous than tech.
- Even if you find a "white collar" job that is not a sausagefest or even female-dominated, it does not mean you won't receive attrition for your gender, it'll just come from some other women and their incessant, inevitable need to bully one another into a pecking order. That, and female-oriented office jobs are both lower-paying, lower prestige, less intellectual (which you will miss from academia) and by far the most at risk by automation, something that has been true for 100 years of technological improvement and will not stop accelerating any time soon.
- Blue collar men are more likely than white collar ones to "give credit where credit is due"; that is, if you can stick it out and prove objectively that you are doing the job, they will eventually relent to some extent, and may even accept you into their fold. There is a greater degree of meritocracy - yes that means a lot of the RSP flavor of blue collar noble savaging is true in many ways.
- I hate discouraging you, but you will burn out because you start because you aren't interested in the job for anything else other than having a job for the sake of it. I took up a blue collar job because I wanted something simple and I love to work with my hands. You definitely have to be a certain kind of woman to want to go into it, and unless you feel like you can mold your personality into that (and I'm not getting that impression from you, I mean that with all sincerity), you should look elsewhere. Worse than going into this field and failing are going into it and half-assing it and confirming the latent bias of all your male coworkers that women never want to work hard and push themselves.
- There are niches of employment that aren't, you know, lugging steel frames around or working with power tools. For example, if you are artistically inclined, you can work in theater arts such as stage scenery, costumes, or props. If you like gardening, you can go into horticulture or something farming-related (and farmers/ranchers undoubtedly respect their female compatriots who walk the walk). And so on and so forth.
Okay, that was longer than I wanted. tl;dr no you're not probably going to be an HVAC warrior unless you really desire it and probably should look into one of the many jobs out there that exist somewhere between academic paper-scanner and hard manual labor.
, i had a job once working on ranches, messing with their water wells, and my boss was a woman, and she definitely commanded the respect of the ranchers, even though she was an outsider (and this was in a very insular community with strong ethnic divisions) and a scientist foremost. i think it was mostly because she wasn't afraid to make a bailing wire fence or rassle up some cows if necessary in the call of duty.
3) somewhat a combination of the two, i think it's easy to not see where the end is or how you'll survive beyond your 20s and 30s. i can't speak to the more specialized areas of the "green" world, where i imagine there's better regimented hierarchy, (in say, a scientific lab for soil analysis), but you can find it to be a world of arrested development in a way. just people mostly winging it. the trust fund kids are ergo very annoying, and naturally there's a good amount of rich kids who get into the outdoors and can survive off their background without worrying about the consequences of the above points (or float to an office job with their field work as Linked In posts later in life). it's not a world conducive to a set path or natural progression. and the older people i met who work in the outdoors or adjacent fields mostly just moved into the office and constantly lamented that fact.
with all this said, i wish i had stayed in the field, but a combination of frustration, desire for novelty, and the jobs drying up due to the US fed problems, i am now simply a wagie at a shift job. always searching for open positions, but i'm probably moving across the country soon and can't commit to a season.
>>8718
>>8709
i would say:
1) a great deal of employment in the field is based upon seasonal positions. this means you basically can only work in the spring/summer/fall. some people have historically taken advantage of this by applying for unemployment in the off season and living a kind of bum lifestyle, but many states and the fed are cracking down on whether seasonal work is applicable for unemployment benefits. and, if you're someone who doesn't want to be on the dole, there is a serious looming question of where you might live and work for a large chunk of the year.
the seasonal lifestyle can also be advantageous because you have the flexibility to go wherever and aren't really tied to one employer or location forever. i would say that's how most people utilize it, but that means it only attracts the kind of person who finds this conducive to their being, which aren't always the responsible type.
on a more practically note, seasonal employment isn't governed by many of the "protections" that are attached to normal full time employment. health insurance is a bonus. many pay well, but a great deal know that the applicants really want to do this kind of thing do they don't have an incentive to increase wages very much. i think one simply has to do some research before jumping in.
2) it's definitely a male dominated field. there's a lot of people who think themselves to be Jack London or yeomen or whatever. i cannot readily speak to misogyny, being a man, but there's definitely some grating personalities, who respect only themselves. on the other hand, people from all walks decide to do a season of field work, so you'll find a lot of interesting stories and people.
i agree with >>8705, i had a job once working on ranches, messing with their water wells, and my boss was a woman, and she definitely commanded the respect of the ranchers, even though she was an outsider (and this was in a very insular community with strong ethnic divisions) and a scientist foremost. i think it was mostly because she wasn't afraid to make a bailing wire fence or rassle up some cows if necessary in the call of duty.
3) somewhat a combination of the two, i think it's easy to not see where the end is or how you'll survive beyond your 20s and 30s. i can't speak to the more specialized areas of the "green" world, where i imagine there's better regimented hierarchy, (in say, a scientific lab for soil analysis), but you can find it to be a world of arrested development in a way. just people mostly winging it. the trust fund kids are ergo very annoying, and naturally there's a good amount of rich kids who get into the outdoors and can survive off their background without worrying about the consequences of the above points (or float to an office job with their field work as Linked In posts later in life). it's not a world conducive to a set path or natural progression. and the older people i met who work in the outdoors or adjacent fields mostly just moved into the office and constantly lamented that fact.
with all this said, i wish i had stayed in the field, but a combination of frustration, desire for novelty, and the jobs drying up due to the US fed problems, i am now simply a wagie at a shift job. always searching for open positions, but i'm probably moving across the country soon and can't commit to a season.
meant to >>8711>>8709
>it comes with its own host of problems.
What are they?
Anonymous :
48 days ago :
No.8739
>>8740
>>8739
Is it an elephant shrew?
>>8741>>8739
Nice.
Steinbeck's character (and IRL friend) had his own lab where he did such things. There are some nice stories.
He reads one of Doc's stories here: archive(dot)org/details/csal_000048
>>8891>>8739
Do you like working in a lab? I like the idea of working in the biological sciences sometimes, but the prospect of lab work sounds miserable. The few sciences people I know mostly say that lab work is a necessary evil (as opposed to "field work"), some people even like it. Though, there is the odd duck who doesn't like to be outside and would rather be in the lab. I suppose this doesn't apply to all fields equally.
I currently get a meager amount of money for preserving specimens to make microscope slides & for watching and labeling behaviours in video recordings of an obscure zoo animal.
Anonymous :
48 days ago :
No.8740
>>8742
>>8740
Yes. I participate in a research project aiming to describe its behavioral repertoire in captivity.
>>8739
I currently get a meager amount of money for preserving specimens to make microscope slides & for watching and labeling behaviours in video recordings of an obscure zoo animal.
Is it an elephant shrew?
>>8739
I currently get a meager amount of money for preserving specimens to make microscope slides & for watching and labeling behaviours in video recordings of an obscure zoo animal.
Nice.
Steinbeck's character (and IRL friend) had his own lab where he did such things. There are some nice stories.
He reads one of Doc's stories here: archive(dot)org/details/csal_000048
>>8739
I currently get a meager amount of money for preserving specimens to make microscope slides & for watching and labeling behaviours in video recordings of an obscure zoo animal.
Do you like working in a lab? I like the idea of working in the biological sciences sometimes, but the prospect of lab work sounds miserable. The few sciences people I know mostly say that lab work is a necessary evil (as opposed to "field work"), some people even like it. Though, there is the odd duck who doesn't like to be outside and would rather be in the lab. I suppose this doesn't apply to all fields equally.
Anonymous :
34 days ago :
No.8965
>>8966
>>8965
me too. being outdoors by myself for a living is a dream. but I don't think I can survive in an office unless I have a crush on someone there
Sometimes, I daydream about becoming a land surveyor. It seems like the perfect balance: you're outside walking the world, scribbling measures, and as time goes by, you work more and more in the office.
Anonymous :
34 days ago :
No.8966
>>8967
>>8966
legitimately having a crush on someone makes office life 200% more bearable
>>8972>>8967
>>8966
I don't know. Your crush changes job and suddenly you wake up, it's ten years later and your life hasn't changed a bit.
Crushes are fun but they're also a big pause button on every one of your projects so you can daydream about a beau.
Might as well go and kill a dragon and get the Grail to woo your crush, at least you learn something. But it is difficult to reconcile with an office job.
>>8965
Sometimes, I daydream about becoming a land surveyor. It seems like the perfect balance: you're outside walking the world, scribbling measures, and as time goes by, you work more and more in the office.
me too. being outdoors by myself for a living is a dream. but I don't think I can survive in an office unless I have a crush on someone there
Anonymous :
34 days ago :
No.8967
>>8972
>>8967
>>8966
I don't know. Your crush changes job and suddenly you wake up, it's ten years later and your life hasn't changed a bit.
Crushes are fun but they're also a big pause button on every one of your projects so you can daydream about a beau.
Might as well go and kill a dragon and get the Grail to woo your crush, at least you learn something. But it is difficult to reconcile with an office job.
Anonymous :
33 days ago :
No.8968
>>8973
>>8968
french foreign legion does not accept women. if they did I wouldn't have made this post
>>9000>>8968
>>8973
it's a little funny, a little interesting, how ubiquitous the desire for the warrior archetype/lifestyle/mentality permeates the world. i know it's a universal human desire. i mean, those ancient wooden slabs that that ukrainian kid doodled on were all about how he wished he could be a literal knight. but in this form of existence, the office/wagie drone one, the distance between "warrior" and self has never been greater. still, you see guys schlepping out wads of cash to go to fake soldier school (instead of joining the real army, interesting, who just raised their age limit btw lol). everyone wants an enemy and a singular motive, i guess.
>>8699 (OP)
You and me my friend were meant to die in a war in some foreign land. What are you waiting for?
>>8967
>>8966
legitimately having a crush on someone makes office life 200% more bearable
>>8966>>8965
me too. being outdoors by myself for a living is a dream. but I don't think I can survive in an office unless I have a crush on someone there
I don't know. Your crush changes job and suddenly you wake up, it's ten years later and your life hasn't changed a bit.
Crushes are fun but they're also a big pause button on every one of your projects so you can daydream about a beau.
Might as well go and kill a dragon and get the Grail to woo your crush, at least you learn something. But it is difficult to reconcile with an office job.
Anonymous :
33 days ago :
No.8973
>>8980
>>8973
The female equivalent is called giving children you don't truly love to a man you despise
>>9000>>8968
>>8973
it's a little funny, a little interesting, how ubiquitous the desire for the warrior archetype/lifestyle/mentality permeates the world. i know it's a universal human desire. i mean, those ancient wooden slabs that that ukrainian kid doodled on were all about how he wished he could be a literal knight. but in this form of existence, the office/wagie drone one, the distance between "warrior" and self has never been greater. still, you see guys schlepping out wads of cash to go to fake soldier school (instead of joining the real army, interesting, who just raised their age limit btw lol). everyone wants an enemy and a singular motive, i guess.
>>8968
>>8699 (OP)
You and me my friend were meant to die in a war in some foreign land. What are you waiting for?
french foreign legion does not accept women. if they did I wouldn't have made this post
Anonymous :
33 days ago :
No.8974
>>8976
>>8974
call this arrested development alike, but I definitely cultivated my "office crush" with enthusiasm because it lent a pathos and a narrative arc to my pointless and boring job that it wouldn't otherwise have had. absolutely certain that if I had seen this girl in a bar I wouldn't have looked twice at her, but I liked the fact that she could make my heart jump at 10am next to the coffee machine. just drug-seeking behaviour for endorphins, really.
>>8985>>8974
>>8976
If it makes school/work tolerable, then it's worth it, if there is a point to school/work.
I'm currently building a business for a crush. The crush doesn't know it, but it's for them. Yet I know that when the attraction will have faded, I'll be (hopefully) richer and at least more experienced.
>> 8972
very profound, very true. luckily for me I don't get crushes anymore. which is a post for another day.
when I was an adolescent, I used to wake up happy and eager at the prospect of seeing my crush at school. imagine being excited to go to school? when id get over one crush I'd have another and another, sometimes crushing on more than one guy.
but I suspect now that it was probably a coping mechanism. anything to make school suck less
Anonymous :
33 days ago :
No.8976
>>8978
>>8976
*if you like (not 'alike')
>>8985>>8974
>>8976
If it makes school/work tolerable, then it's worth it, if there is a point to school/work.
I'm currently building a business for a crush. The crush doesn't know it, but it's for them. Yet I know that when the attraction will have faded, I'll be (hopefully) richer and at least more experienced.
>>8974
>> 8972
very profound, very true. luckily for me I don't get crushes anymore. which is a post for another day.
when I was an adolescent, I used to wake up happy and eager at the prospect of seeing my crush at school. imagine being excited to go to school? when id get over one crush I'd have another and another, sometimes crushing on more than one guy.
but I suspect now that it was probably a coping mechanism. anything to make school suck less
call this arrested development alike, but I definitely cultivated my "office crush" with enthusiasm because it lent a pathos and a narrative arc to my pointless and boring job that it wouldn't otherwise have had. absolutely certain that if I had seen this girl in a bar I wouldn't have looked twice at her, but I liked the fact that she could make my heart jump at 10am next to the coffee machine. just drug-seeking behaviour for endorphins, really.
>>8976
>>8974
call this arrested development alike, but I definitely cultivated my "office crush" with enthusiasm because it lent a pathos and a narrative arc to my pointless and boring job that it wouldn't otherwise have had. absolutely certain that if I had seen this girl in a bar I wouldn't have looked twice at her, but I liked the fact that she could make my heart jump at 10am next to the coffee machine. just drug-seeking behaviour for endorphins, really.
*if you like (not 'alike')
>>8974
>> 8972
very profound, very true. luckily for me I don't get crushes anymore. which is a post for another day.
when I was an adolescent, I used to wake up happy and eager at the prospect of seeing my crush at school. imagine being excited to go to school? when id get over one crush I'd have another and another, sometimes crushing on more than one guy.
but I suspect now that it was probably a coping mechanism. anything to make school suck less
>>8976>>8974
call this arrested development alike, but I definitely cultivated my "office crush" with enthusiasm because it lent a pathos and a narrative arc to my pointless and boring job that it wouldn't otherwise have had. absolutely certain that if I had seen this girl in a bar I wouldn't have looked twice at her, but I liked the fact that she could make my heart jump at 10am next to the coffee machine. just drug-seeking behaviour for endorphins, really.
If it makes school/work tolerable, then it's worth it, if there is a point to school/work.
I'm currently building a business for a crush. The crush doesn't know it, but it's for them. Yet I know that when the attraction will have faded, I'll be (hopefully) richer and at least more experienced.
Anonymous :
32 days ago :
No.9000
>>9001
>>9000
nice GET
funny thing is that there is no way joining a modern western military is going to give you what you want in that regard. maybe the foreign legion would, but that seems horrible and alienating for anyone who isn't in one of their main demographics (romanian semi-criminal thugs, colombian semi-criminal thugs, etc.)
you are not going to join the koryos. get over it. go train for a triathalon or something if you need a larp that's actually going to do you good.
>>9006>>9000
for me it's about discipline and community more than anything. to be away from tech most of the time, to live with and eat with and do the same tasks as people you're surrounded by is a dream for me. I've always longed for a sense of community.
School gave me that for some years, college didn't and I miss it so badly.
I'm not built for this individualistic world.
Since I'm not religious, not even a believer at all nor interested enough in a certain hobby or career to join communities dedicated to those, I'm left with only books and movies to feel less alone.
but it's not enough.
I have friends but they flake, they have their own lives and things they do and we're not close like we should be. we're not going to be close the way my parents and their friends were.
>>8968
>>8699 (OP)
You and me my friend were meant to die in a war in some foreign land. What are you waiting for?
>>8973>>8968
french foreign legion does not accept women. if they did I wouldn't have made this post
it's a little funny, a little interesting, how ubiquitous the desire for the warrior archetype/lifestyle/mentality permeates the world. i know it's a universal human desire. i mean, those ancient wooden slabs that that ukrainian kid doodled on were all about how he wished he could be a literal knight. but in this form of existence, the office/wagie drone one, the distance between "warrior" and self has never been greater. still, you see guys schlepping out wads of cash to go to fake soldier school (instead of joining the real army, interesting, who just raised their age limit btw lol). everyone wants an enemy and a singular motive, i guess.
Anonymous :
32 days ago :
No.9001
>>9002
>>9001
yours aren't so bad yourself
agreed, for the most part. our world is too shattered to give yourself up to the spirit of war and not be torn apart. this might've been the case for all mankind, im not sure, but the majority of people who excel in war or war institutions are crazy. anyone gets broken. maybe things were different when you were a norman and all you knew was William the Conqueror saying okay let's go get some land.
lol i think you're not wrong about the triathalon. some are all consumed by identity though, and trying to make identity and self into one.
>>9000
>>8968
>>8973
it's a little funny, a little interesting, how ubiquitous the desire for the warrior archetype/lifestyle/mentality permeates the world. i know it's a universal human desire. i mean, those ancient wooden slabs that that ukrainian kid doodled on were all about how he wished he could be a literal knight. but in this form of existence, the office/wagie drone one, the distance between "warrior" and self has never been greater. still, you see guys schlepping out wads of cash to go to fake soldier school (instead of joining the real army, interesting, who just raised their age limit btw lol). everyone wants an enemy and a singular motive, i guess.
nice GET
funny thing is that there is no way joining a modern western military is going to give you what you want in that regard. maybe the foreign legion would, but that seems horrible and alienating for anyone who isn't in one of their main demographics (romanian semi-criminal thugs, colombian semi-criminal thugs, etc.)
you are not going to join the koryos. get over it. go train for a triathalon or something if you need a larp that's actually going to do you good.
>>9001
>>9000
nice GET
funny thing is that there is no way joining a modern western military is going to give you what you want in that regard. maybe the foreign legion would, but that seems horrible and alienating for anyone who isn't in one of their main demographics (romanian semi-criminal thugs, colombian semi-criminal thugs, etc.)
you are not going to join the koryos. get over it. go train for a triathalon or something if you need a larp that's actually going to do you good.
yours aren't so bad yourself
agreed, for the most part. our world is too shattered to give yourself up to the spirit of war and not be torn apart. this might've been the case for all mankind, im not sure, but the majority of people who excel in war or war institutions are crazy. anyone gets broken. maybe things were different when you were a norman and all you knew was William the Conqueror saying okay let's go get some land.
lol i think you're not wrong about the triathalon. some are all consumed by identity though, and trying to make identity and self into one.
Anonymous :
32 days ago :
No.9006
>>9014
>>9006
I wish there were a way to recognize other community minded folks. Most of the time, I fail to recognize individualists who can't temporary deal with loneliness, couple-minded people who want a break, or wanna-be gurus in search for a flock. Neither lend themself to the long-term effort a community requires.
>>9039>>9006
very beau travail of you.
are you not close with your friends because they don't reach out or because you don't or for some other reason?
>>9000
>>8968
>>8973
it's a little funny, a little interesting, how ubiquitous the desire for the warrior archetype/lifestyle/mentality permeates the world. i know it's a universal human desire. i mean, those ancient wooden slabs that that ukrainian kid doodled on were all about how he wished he could be a literal knight. but in this form of existence, the office/wagie drone one, the distance between "warrior" and self has never been greater. still, you see guys schlepping out wads of cash to go to fake soldier school (instead of joining the real army, interesting, who just raised their age limit btw lol). everyone wants an enemy and a singular motive, i guess.
for me it's about discipline and community more than anything. to be away from tech most of the time, to live with and eat with and do the same tasks as people you're surrounded by is a dream for me. I've always longed for a sense of community.
School gave me that for some years, college didn't and I miss it so badly.
I'm not built for this individualistic world.
Since I'm not religious, not even a believer at all nor interested enough in a certain hobby or career to join communities dedicated to those, I'm left with only books and movies to feel less alone.
but it's not enough.
I have friends but they flake, they have their own lives and things they do and we're not close like we should be. we're not going to be close the way my parents and their friends were.
>>9006
>>9000
for me it's about discipline and community more than anything. to be away from tech most of the time, to live with and eat with and do the same tasks as people you're surrounded by is a dream for me. I've always longed for a sense of community.
School gave me that for some years, college didn't and I miss it so badly.
I'm not built for this individualistic world.
Since I'm not religious, not even a believer at all nor interested enough in a certain hobby or career to join communities dedicated to those, I'm left with only books and movies to feel less alone.
but it's not enough.
I have friends but they flake, they have their own lives and things they do and we're not close like we should be. we're not going to be close the way my parents and their friends were.
I wish there were a way to recognize other community minded folks. Most of the time, I fail to recognize individualists who can't temporary deal with loneliness, couple-minded people who want a break, or wanna-be gurus in search for a flock. Neither lend themself to the long-term effort a community requires.
Anonymous :
30 days ago :
No.9039
>>9040
>>9039
you know how you have friends at school that you get along with really well at school, maybe you invite them to your birthday party, maybe you all go out for lunch together after the last final, you gossip and share memes on the groupchat but that's it.
you can't call them when you're crying, you can't confide in them about things, you can't totally be yourself around them. that's the kind of friends they are.
I don't know why our dynamic is this way but it's like we're on edge and have our guard up.
the people I'm talking about are close with their families so they already have a good support network and are probably content with that. they also have childhood friends they hang out with, i don't.
it's very, very difficult to make plans with them. they're kind of homebodies but it feels like most people of my generation are (except the rich ones)
god knows ive tried initiating plans but it's just not going to work with them.
>>9006
>>9000
for me it's about discipline and community more than anything. to be away from tech most of the time, to live with and eat with and do the same tasks as people you're surrounded by is a dream for me. I've always longed for a sense of community.
School gave me that for some years, college didn't and I miss it so badly.
I'm not built for this individualistic world.
Since I'm not religious, not even a believer at all nor interested enough in a certain hobby or career to join communities dedicated to those, I'm left with only books and movies to feel less alone.
but it's not enough.
I have friends but they flake, they have their own lives and things they do and we're not close like we should be. we're not going to be close the way my parents and their friends were.
very beau travail of you.
are you not close with your friends because they don't reach out or because you don't or for some other reason?
>>9039
>>9006
very beau travail of you.
are you not close with your friends because they don't reach out or because you don't or for some other reason?
you know how you have friends at school that you get along with really well at school, maybe you invite them to your birthday party, maybe you all go out for lunch together after the last final, you gossip and share memes on the groupchat but that's it.
you can't call them when you're crying, you can't confide in them about things, you can't totally be yourself around them. that's the kind of friends they are.
I don't know why our dynamic is this way but it's like we're on edge and have our guard up.
the people I'm talking about are close with their families so they already have a good support network and are probably content with that. they also have childhood friends they hang out with, i don't.
it's very, very difficult to make plans with them. they're kind of homebodies but it feels like most people of my generation are (except the rich ones)
god knows ive tried initiating plans but it's just not going to work with them.
Anonymous :
30 days ago :
No.9043
>>9045
>>9043
i've been talking to my buddhist (boomer hippy who lived in asia a long time) co-worker, and he very much believes in the mantra of "where you are is where you're supposed to be".
comments like these make me wonder about the flip side of that belief.
you are meant to post on petrarchan.com
Anonymous :
30 days ago :
No.9045
>>9046
>>9045
Another way of putting it is: work with what's in front of you. There's no point in running somewhere else.
>>9062>>9052
Yeah, I think you can go too far in the other direction. This probably says something about my psychological disposition more than it is any kind of objective statement, but I think becoming trapped with blinders on is more "dangerous" (or maybe simply a more common danger) than to be always in flight. Probably I only say that because I'm more prone to the former than the latter, and idolize freedom either in true physical movement or in a spiritual sense. The people who are always running are indeed afraid of attachment though, or in love with pain, and that's a difficult puzzle.
The motivation though behind my comments (>>9045, >>9049), or resistance to "where you are there you are", is stemming from a thought that one is ultimately unable to know if one's in the "right" place.
>>9043
you are meant to post on petrarchan.com
i've been talking to my buddhist (boomer hippy who lived in asia a long time) co-worker, and he very much believes in the mantra of "where you are is where you're supposed to be".
comments like these make me wonder about the flip side of that belief.
Anonymous :
30 days ago :
No.9046
>>9049
>>9046
I don't disagree with that, but I think a change in scenery never hurts.
>>9045
>>9043
i've been talking to my buddhist (boomer hippy who lived in asia a long time) co-worker, and he very much believes in the mantra of "where you are is where you're supposed to be".
comments like these make me wonder about the flip side of that belief.
Another way of putting it is: work with what's in front of you. There's no point in running somewhere else.
Anonymous :
29 days ago :
No.9049
>>9052
>>9049
It can be useful, sure. It shakes things up, and allow for changes, but it can hurt. Have you never met the type of people perpetually running from place to place, always taken by the construction of their new circumstances, never able to stay in being, stuck in perpetual becoming? In these case, the change of scenery is a dangerous distraction or maybe an addiction I think.
>>9062>>9052
Yeah, I think you can go too far in the other direction. This probably says something about my psychological disposition more than it is any kind of objective statement, but I think becoming trapped with blinders on is more "dangerous" (or maybe simply a more common danger) than to be always in flight. Probably I only say that because I'm more prone to the former than the latter, and idolize freedom either in true physical movement or in a spiritual sense. The people who are always running are indeed afraid of attachment though, or in love with pain, and that's a difficult puzzle.
The motivation though behind my comments (>>9045, >>9049), or resistance to "where you are there you are", is stemming from a thought that one is ultimately unable to know if one's in the "right" place.
Anonymous :
29 days ago :
No.9052
>>9062
>>9052
Yeah, I think you can go too far in the other direction. This probably says something about my psychological disposition more than it is any kind of objective statement, but I think becoming trapped with blinders on is more "dangerous" (or maybe simply a more common danger) than to be always in flight. Probably I only say that because I'm more prone to the former than the latter, and idolize freedom either in true physical movement or in a spiritual sense. The people who are always running are indeed afraid of attachment though, or in love with pain, and that's a difficult puzzle.
The motivation though behind my comments (>>9045, >>9049), or resistance to "where you are there you are", is stemming from a thought that one is ultimately unable to know if one's in the "right" place.
>>9049
>>9046
I don't disagree with that, but I think a change in scenery never hurts.
It can be useful, sure. It shakes things up, and allow for changes, but it can hurt. Have you never met the type of people perpetually running from place to place, always taken by the construction of their new circumstances, never able to stay in being, stuck in perpetual becoming? In these case, the change of scenery is a dangerous distraction or maybe an addiction I think.
>>9052
>>9049
It can be useful, sure. It shakes things up, and allow for changes, but it can hurt. Have you never met the type of people perpetually running from place to place, always taken by the construction of their new circumstances, never able to stay in being, stuck in perpetual becoming? In these case, the change of scenery is a dangerous distraction or maybe an addiction I think.
Yeah, I think you can go too far in the other direction. This probably says something about my psychological disposition more than it is any kind of objective statement, but I think becoming trapped with blinders on is more "dangerous" (or maybe simply a more common danger) than to be always in flight. Probably I only say that because I'm more prone to the former than the latter, and idolize freedom either in true physical movement or in a spiritual sense. The people who are always running are indeed afraid of attachment though, or in love with pain, and that's a difficult puzzle.
The motivation though behind my comments (>>9045>>9043
i've been talking to my buddhist (boomer hippy who lived in asia a long time) co-worker, and he very much believes in the mantra of "where you are is where you're supposed to be".
comments like these make me wonder about the flip side of that belief.
, >>9049>>9046
I don't disagree with that, but I think a change in scenery never hurts.
), or resistance to "where you are there you are", is stemming from a thought that one is ultimately unable to know if one's in the "right" place.
Anonymous :
28 days ago :
No.9076
>>9077
>>9076
is picrel good
>>9079>>9076
Also: I've never worked an office job, but had one job in which I had some WFH spreadsheet tasks, and it drove me insane. When the job became all computer work, I quit as soon as I got another job. It also paid basically nothing, so it wasn't a huge biggie, but I learned that if I have to stare at a computer screen for more than 30 to 40% of my job, I'll probably walk out in traffic at some point.
There's something about an office environment that makes it impossible for me to work. Every office job I've ever had I kind of just stare into space and dissociate for eight hours, looking at non-work related things on my computer discretely. I only ever do work when it's extremely urgent or unavoidable. Sometimes I get in hot water but usually it's OK - if you dress smartly, talk politely, and say stuff in meetings people assume you are working hard and getting stuff done and they'll leave you alone. There is serious work for me to do, but for some reason I can never bring myself to do it. I have no idea why, I used to work hard in school and university. I've been able to "progress" in my career and get higher salaries simply by leaving and applying for other jobs after about a year, which I've done three times now. I assume I only get away with it because I'm still in my twenties. Idk what will happen after that, maybe I'll actually have to find a job where I can stomach the work, or maybe I'll be found out as a fraud and never get a nice office job again.
Anonymous :
27 days ago :
No.9077
>>9080
>>9077
It's a good insight into the mindset of someone who has given up on a conventional career/family/life not in the fun bohemian/slacker/layabout/return-to-nature way that we are familiar with in the west but rather with more of a sense of crushing despair and exhaustion that makes more sense in Asia. I found it cathartic to read at a time when I was really fed up with office work and couldn't identify with any of the other means of escape that are usually glamorized by people in a similar position. The life that the author leads is not something I think anyone in this thread can or would ever contemplate seriously, there's something too depressing or repulsive about it (a contemporary analogue would be something like the early posts by WBE on substack), however it is very well written and I value the honesty of the author.
>>9076
There's something about an office environment that makes it impossible for me to work. Every office job I've ever had I kind of just stare into space and dissociate for eight hours, looking at non-work related things on my computer discretely. I only ever do work when it's extremely urgent or unavoidable. Sometimes I get in hot water but usually it's OK - if you dress smartly, talk politely, and say stuff in meetings people assume you are working hard and getting stuff done and they'll leave you alone. There is serious work for me to do, but for some reason I can never bring myself to do it. I have no idea why, I used to work hard in school and university. I've been able to "progress" in my career and get higher salaries simply by leaving and applying for other jobs after about a year, which I've done three times now. I assume I only get away with it because I'm still in my twenties. Idk what will happen after that, maybe I'll actually have to find a job where I can stomach the work, or maybe I'll be found out as a fraud and never get a nice office job again.
is picrel good
>>9076
There's something about an office environment that makes it impossible for me to work. Every office job I've ever had I kind of just stare into space and dissociate for eight hours, looking at non-work related things on my computer discretely. I only ever do work when it's extremely urgent or unavoidable. Sometimes I get in hot water but usually it's OK - if you dress smartly, talk politely, and say stuff in meetings people assume you are working hard and getting stuff done and they'll leave you alone. There is serious work for me to do, but for some reason I can never bring myself to do it. I have no idea why, I used to work hard in school and university. I've been able to "progress" in my career and get higher salaries simply by leaving and applying for other jobs after about a year, which I've done three times now. I assume I only get away with it because I'm still in my twenties. Idk what will happen after that, maybe I'll actually have to find a job where I can stomach the work, or maybe I'll be found out as a fraud and never get a nice office job again.
Also: I've never worked an office job, but had one job in which I had some WFH spreadsheet tasks, and it drove me insane. When the job became all computer work, I quit as soon as I got another job. It also paid basically nothing, so it wasn't a huge biggie, but I learned that if I have to stare at a computer screen for more than 30 to 40% of my job, I'll probably walk out in traffic at some point.
>>9077
>>9076
is picrel good
It's a good insight into the mindset of someone who has given up on a conventional career/family/life not in the fun bohemian/slacker/layabout/return-to-nature way that we are familiar with in the west but rather with more of a sense of crushing despair and exhaustion that makes more sense in Asia. I found it cathartic to read at a time when I was really fed up with office work and couldn't identify with any of the other means of escape that are usually glamorized by people in a similar position. The life that the author leads is not something I think anyone in this thread can or would ever contemplate seriously, there's something too depressing or repulsive about it (a contemporary analogue would be something like the early posts by WBE on substack), however it is very well written and I value the honesty of the author.
okay im moving somewhere new, how do i not fuck up and become a wagie and instead get a job that's fun and interesting and pays well and everyone thinks im cool but im not doing really stressful shitty work