>waaah waaah waah! >I wanna be a professional writer who gets paid to put short stories in magazines! >I wanna be a tenured professor of English literature who writes self-indulgent novels about fucking his students! If you were an actual ARTIST, if you actually had something to SAY, you'd go to wherever the audiences were. The real artists are making 2 minute videos on TikTok, they're not wrapped up in the ass-eating ouroboros we call "literature" which amounts to little more than a Pinterest aesthetic and a recitation of economic grievances.
Anonymous :
18 days ago :
No.5887
>>5916
>>5887 (OP)
>waaah waaah waah!
Why do you talk like this?
>>5944>>5887 (OP)
I see your point. If you are chiefly concerned with potential reach of your art, TikTok does seem the way to go. But please ponder on the ramifications of TikTokifying your art.
How many react channels will profit off of your art without giving due credit? What if your art runs afoul of the algorithm or is removed due to false flagging? Choosing an online social media website chiefly concerned to keep you scrolling, will change your art to fit that mold. If you are willing to do that, then best of luck to you. Otherwise, I don't see why you would champion TikTok over getting pieces published in magazines.
>>5949>>5887 (OP)
These women don't work in publishing. They're the wives and girlfriends of old-money husbands, or they're old money themselves.
>>5910
You could also stop being a garbage phone poster.
The latter is true, the former isn't. I like your post though :)
The former is narcissistic self indulgence and idolizing an identity which neither exists, nor you could even perform. Or said another way LARP.
The second thing is even worse. It is believing that just because you have an audience, you have something to say, which is a statement so ridiculous that sincerely believing in it would almost redeem the whole endeavor.
Of course art is not found in either place. Making long form Tiktok content (2 Minutes is assuming a serious attention span) is just participation in one of the greatest mental annihilations the world has ever seen. Tiktoks are the anti-thesis to art, the claim that consumption is what matters and not reflection.
My post doesn't assume that having an audience means you have something to say. It's claiming that if you have something to say you will choose a medium which stands a chance of connecting you with an audience. Put another way, if you preference your choice of medium over anyone actually seeing your work, you're a hobbyist and not an artist. Writing a novel no one will read is closer to scrapbooking or making birdhouses than it is to writing a novel people actually will read.
My point is that any "audience" consists of mindbroken people, who may or may not be able to mentally engage with something above the most surface level, but who actively seek to avoid doing so at any cost.
You can not "watch" a Video on TikTok, the only way to engage with the content is through consumption and consumers are truly the lowest form of human existence. The only reason people care what consumers think is to create new things for consumption, of which more will be consumed. The opinions of a consumer couldn't be more irrelevant, especially not because he doesn't have any opinions, it is just ideas implanted there to by some algorithm.
The most successful books of recent times are porn for women. If I visit a book store it has three parts, porn for women, porn for weebs (manga) and random cookbooks.
There is no success in that environment, if you do not actively try to alienate your audience you are encouraging this behavior.
>Writing a novel no one will read is closer to scrapbooking or making birdhouses than it is to writing a novel people actually will read.
Indeed and given the things people *are* willing to read, nobody caring about your novel should be a praise.
Anonymous :
18 days ago :
No.5902
>>5905 >>5915
>>5902
If you care about what the consumer masses think or don't think, you aren't an artists you are a propagandists.
Consumers do not communicate either, whether you tell your story to a brick wall or to the millions of TikTok is irrelevant. In both cases no communication is happening, both the wall and the TikTok user is fundamentally incapable of that.
The ubermensch sees the reduction of literature to pornography for women as a challenge– how can he express what beauty he has to convey through pornography for women?
Literature is communication, and a communication with no recipient is nothing at all.
>>5898
My post doesn't assume that having an audience means you have something to say. It's claiming that if you have something to say you will choose a medium which stands a chance of connecting you with an audience. Put another way, if you preference your choice of medium over anyone actually seeing your work, you're a hobbyist and not an artist. Writing a novel no one will read is closer to scrapbooking or making birdhouses than it is to writing a novel people actually will read.
>>5899My point is that any "audience" consists of mindbroken people, who may or may not be able to mentally engage with something above the most surface level, but who actively seek to avoid doing so at any cost.
You can not "watch" a Video on TikTok, the only way to engage with the content is through consumption and consumers are truly the lowest form of human existence. The only reason people care what consumers think is to create new things for consumption, of which more will be consumed. The opinions of a consumer couldn't be more irrelevant, especially not because he doesn't have any opinions, it is just ideas implanted there to by some algorithm.
The most successful books of recent times are porn for women. If I visit a book store it has three parts, porn for women, porn for weebs (manga) and random cookbooks.
There is no success in that environment, if you do not actively try to alienate your audience you are encouraging this behavior.
>Writing a novel no one will read is closer to scrapbooking or making birdhouses than it is to writing a novel people actually will read.
Indeed and given the things people *are* willing to read, nobody caring about your novel should be a praise.
>>5902The ubermensch sees the reduction of literature to pornography for women as a challenge– how can he express what beauty he has to convey through pornography for women?
Literature is communication, and a communication with no recipient is nothing at all.
You speds need to start using reply-links. It's like watching two people arguing at a wall.
Anonymous :
18 days ago :
No.5906
>>5912
>>5911
Lotta work. I wish I could just click the post number
>>5906
Narrative is a meta-art you can layer onto any medium. A story is the exploration of a situation in which someone is trying to do something and succeeds, fails, or changes in the process. You can translate a situation like that into any medium.
Fucking around with the DISTINCTIVE elements of the medium you're operating in is a distinct endeavor from narrative. If this sort of formal innovation doesn't earn you any readers, I contend that it probably isn't impressive enough for you to be wasting your time on.
The days when audiences were too unsophisticated for formalism in literature are pretty far behind us. There's a core of enthusiasts at the heart of every medium, and if you can't get these people's attention with whatever the fuck you're doing, then the strength of your work is in narrative and is therefore transferable to a medium that people actually care to watch.
If you are capable of sufficient formal innovation in written narrative that people give a shit, you won't be expressing the greentext sentiments in the OP so this post ain't for you. But I haven't heard of anyone doing so in the last 10+ years, much less an anon.
This whole discussion hinges on how you define success in artistic endeavors. If you want to simply articulate something to someone, it seems that adopting the "any medium works" approach would work. But if you think the medium influences the work itself, then choosing an imperfect way to communicate to an audience (such as tik tok) would degenerate the attempt itself.
>>5587
A couple months back, I caved and tried out Instagram and Tiktok to kill my boredom. I learned a lot about music producing there, but what really amazed me is how effortless and fun it would be to start making beats because 90% of the work is already done for you. The same applies to art creation in Asia, where resources are nothing short of incredible because everyone is doing the same thing. And far from kneecapping innovation, this dynamic makes experimentation way easier for those who prefer it. Conversely, making art in a vacuum is like a flower trying to grow from a single ray of light and a few drops of water.
Literature is cooked for this reason. It's effectively like taking up marble sculpting or classical painting, they're the same genre of thing now.
Anonymous :
18 days ago :
No.5910
>>5911
>>5910
You can literally just type them out. Look at the post number and put two angle brackets in the front like >>####. Unbelievable how dense you guys are.
>>5949>>5887 (OP)
These women don't work in publishing. They're the wives and girlfriends of old-money husbands, or they're old money themselves.
>>5910
You could also stop being a garbage phone poster.
I can't get reply links to work on mobile
Anonymous :
18 days ago :
No.5911
>>5912
>>5911
Lotta work. I wish I could just click the post number
>>5906
Narrative is a meta-art you can layer onto any medium. A story is the exploration of a situation in which someone is trying to do something and succeeds, fails, or changes in the process. You can translate a situation like that into any medium.
Fucking around with the DISTINCTIVE elements of the medium you're operating in is a distinct endeavor from narrative. If this sort of formal innovation doesn't earn you any readers, I contend that it probably isn't impressive enough for you to be wasting your time on.
The days when audiences were too unsophisticated for formalism in literature are pretty far behind us. There's a core of enthusiasts at the heart of every medium, and if you can't get these people's attention with whatever the fuck you're doing, then the strength of your work is in narrative and is therefore transferable to a medium that people actually care to watch.
If you are capable of sufficient formal innovation in written narrative that people give a shit, you won't be expressing the greentext sentiments in the OP so this post ain't for you. But I haven't heard of anyone doing so in the last 10+ years, much less an anon.
>>5910
I can't get reply links to work on mobile
You can literally just type them out. Look at the post number and put two angle brackets in the front like >>####. Unbelievable how dense you guys are.
Anonymous :
18 days ago :
No.5912
>>5913
>>5912
>Lotta work. I wish I could just click the post number
This is a no-javascript website. The admin built their own medium.
>>5911
>>5910
You can literally just type them out. Look at the post number and put two angle brackets in the front like >>####. Unbelievable how dense you guys are.
Lotta work. I wish I could just click the post number
>>5906This whole discussion hinges on how you define success in artistic endeavors. If you want to simply articulate something to someone, it seems that adopting the "any medium works" approach would work. But if you think the medium influences the work itself, then choosing an imperfect way to communicate to an audience (such as tik tok) would degenerate the attempt itself.
Narrative is a meta-art you can layer onto any medium. A story is the exploration of a situation in which someone is trying to do something and succeeds, fails, or changes in the process. You can translate a situation like that into any medium.
Fucking around with the DISTINCTIVE elements of the medium you're operating in is a distinct endeavor from narrative. If this sort of formal innovation doesn't earn you any readers, I contend that it probably isn't impressive enough for you to be wasting your time on.
The days when audiences were too unsophisticated for formalism in literature are pretty far behind us. There's a core of enthusiasts at the heart of every medium, and if you can't get these people's attention with whatever the fuck you're doing, then the strength of your work is in narrative and is therefore transferable to a medium that people actually care to watch.
If you are capable of sufficient formal innovation in written narrative that people give a shit, you won't be expressing the greentext sentiments in the OP so this post ain't for you. But I haven't heard of anyone doing so in the last 10+ years, much less an anon.
>>5912
>>5911
Lotta work. I wish I could just click the post number
>>5906
Narrative is a meta-art you can layer onto any medium. A story is the exploration of a situation in which someone is trying to do something and succeeds, fails, or changes in the process. You can translate a situation like that into any medium.
Fucking around with the DISTINCTIVE elements of the medium you're operating in is a distinct endeavor from narrative. If this sort of formal innovation doesn't earn you any readers, I contend that it probably isn't impressive enough for you to be wasting your time on.
The days when audiences were too unsophisticated for formalism in literature are pretty far behind us. There's a core of enthusiasts at the heart of every medium, and if you can't get these people's attention with whatever the fuck you're doing, then the strength of your work is in narrative and is therefore transferable to a medium that people actually care to watch.
If you are capable of sufficient formal innovation in written narrative that people give a shit, you won't be expressing the greentext sentiments in the OP so this post ain't for you. But I haven't heard of anyone doing so in the last 10+ years, much less an anon.
>Lotta work. I wish I could just click the post number
This is a no-javascript website. The admin built their own medium.
You presume the number of fans and the amount of money you make writing are directly tied to the quality of your work. The whole premise of this post is retarded.
And an artist shouldn't cuck to their audience. If you make changes because retards on tiktok might like it more, you're lowering yourself to the tastes of tiktok retards. You should have confidence in yourself and your work, regardless of its reception. You should produce it in any format you see fit. You do NOT lower yourself to cater to lower minds. If you write a great novel, and tiktok retards don't like, that's their problem, not yours.
>>5902
The ubermensch sees the reduction of literature to pornography for women as a challenge– how can he express what beauty he has to convey through pornography for women?
Literature is communication, and a communication with no recipient is nothing at all.
If you care about what the consumer masses think or don't think, you aren't an artists you are a propagandists.
Consumers do not communicate either, whether you tell your story to a brick wall or to the millions of TikTok is irrelevant. In both cases no communication is happening, both the wall and the TikTok user is fundamentally incapable of that.
>>5887 (OP)
>waaah waaah waah!
Why do you talk like this?
>>5887 (OP)
I see your point. If you are chiefly concerned with potential reach of your art, TikTok does seem the way to go. But please ponder on the ramifications of TikTokifying your art.
How many react channels will profit off of your art without giving due credit? What if your art runs afoul of the algorithm or is removed due to false flagging? Choosing an online social media website chiefly concerned to keep you scrolling, will change your art to fit that mold. If you are willing to do that, then best of luck to you. Otherwise, I don't see why you would champion TikTok over getting pieces published in magazines.
Anonymous :
16 days ago :
No.5949
>>5953
>>5949
These are models playing into the fantasy of an "intellectual", they do not exist in any meaningful way and represent nothing but an advertisement for an identity. These photos exist to sell Vietnamese made clothes.
>>5887 (OP)
These women don't work in publishing. They're the wives and girlfriends of old-money husbands, or they're old money themselves.
>>5910
I can't get reply links to work on mobile
You could also stop being a garbage phone poster.
Anonymous :
15 days ago :
No.5950
>>6012
>>5950
There were countless pulp authors who never made it, which seem like this guy's spiritual ancestors. Not because they didn't have a prolific output, but simply because they weren't exceedingly great.
I follow an author who has written over 300 (no that is not a typo) stories, mostly on the shorter side. He has sold more stories to Asimov's magazine in particular, than any other author. The man has obviously been doing it for the Craft.
He spoke about the current ease of uploading to Amazon but implied that he made next to nothing: "Now I throw a title up on Kindle, no agents involved, and at the end of the month, I can buy groceries. Maybe. If I'm trying to restrict my calories." And how his old demand for books had collapsed. It doesn't seem sustainable. Maybe if you luck out and get a kick-ass proactive agent? Or the real luck of becoming hugely popular with a first title or something. Just astounds me that regardless of such an extensive catalog of works, the man barely makes it by.
>>5949
>>5887 (OP)
These women don't work in publishing. They're the wives and girlfriends of old-money husbands, or they're old money themselves.
>>5910
You could also stop being a garbage phone poster.
These are models playing into the fantasy of an "intellectual", they do not exist in any meaningful way and represent nothing but an advertisement for an identity. These photos exist to sell Vietnamese made clothes.
>>5950
I follow an author who has written over 300 (no that is not a typo) stories, mostly on the shorter side. He has sold more stories to Asimov's magazine in particular, than any other author. The man has obviously been doing it for the Craft.
He spoke about the current ease of uploading to Amazon but implied that he made next to nothing: "Now I throw a title up on Kindle, no agents involved, and at the end of the month, I can buy groceries. Maybe. If I'm trying to restrict my calories." And how his old demand for books had collapsed. It doesn't seem sustainable. Maybe if you luck out and get a kick-ass proactive agent? Or the real luck of becoming hugely popular with a first title or something. Just astounds me that regardless of such an extensive catalog of works, the man barely makes it by.
There were countless pulp authors who never made it, which seem like this guy's spiritual ancestors. Not because they didn't have a prolific output, but simply because they weren't exceedingly great.