/pt/ – Petrarchan

Just a bunch of weird steppe people with big hats and old soviet infrastructure being ruled over by incompetent corrupt bureaucrats squandering their countries’s great beauty and potential. Like most of the world.

>>2689

Just a bunch of weird steppe people with big hats and old soviet infrastructure being ruled over by incompetent corrupt bureaucrats squandering their countries’s great beauty and potential. Like most of the world.

Humans do love big hats

I don't know, but I've always wanted to go see that big natural gas fire the Soviets started and has been burning ever since.

I remember a schizo post on /x/ talking about if you look at Google Maps in Russia near Central Asia you see there's actually many ancient unpaved but still visible from space roads, and there's a lot going on there.

>>2754

I remember a schizo post on /x/ talking about if you look at Google Maps in Russia near Central Asia you see there's actually many ancient unpaved but still visible from space roads, and there's a lot going on there.

s-silk road?

>>2754

I remember a schizo post on /x/ talking about if you look at Google Maps in Russia near Central Asia you see there's actually many ancient unpaved but still visible from space roads, and there's a lot going on there.

>>2756

>>2754 s-silk road?

I love how no one bothers to check on satellite maps. The story has more value than the (hypothetical) reality.

>>2761

>>2754 >>2756 I love how no one bothers to check on satellite maps. The story has more value than the (hypothetical) reality.

You guys have my interest. Anyone know where I might be able to check it out?

>>2765

>>2761 You guys have my interest. Anyone know where I might be able to check it out?

https://www.google.com/maps

>>2775

>>2765 https://www.google.com/maps

woah

Bruh

Central Asia has some unique geographical challenges that make it stunningly remote. Imagine if the USA didn’t have the Great Lakes or Mississippi and was just a repeating patchwork of Oklahoma-Utah-Nevada for thousands of miles. There is a 900 mile long navigable river, the Amu Darya, but it terminates in a dying salt lake the Aral Sea. The closest Sea to the Aral Sea is another dying salt lake, the Caspian Sea, which doesn’t connect to a larger ocean. The Russian Black Sea port in Rostov is a further 1200 miles away from the Aral Sea. Other transit options would seemingly involve transit through underdeveloped places in Iran or Afghanistan and Pakistan. Those dying seas? Central Asia was the victim of disastrous USSR and post-USSR ecological policies. USSR policies of resettlement of other ethnicities, such as Russians, into Central Asia were essentially efforts to destroy nomadic tribal forms of life. The idea was to bring the Soviet vision of industry and agriculture to Central Asia and purge perceived property owners from power. The Soviet agricultural vision was nearly completely incompatible with the arid steppe. The countries were too big to destroy nomadic culture, but there were lasting effects. For a time, I believe Kazakhstan was majority ethnic Russian due to the forms of soft genocide that were the norm under USSR colonization. Building a highly polluting nuclear and rocketry industry does not make up for the damage done to Kazakhstan, for example. Central Asian industries having to ship products 1500+ miles to a potentially corrupt or hostile foreign ports for Ocean access inherently puts them at a severe disadvantage. But it’s even worse than this as Central Asia has had its industrial capacity, tourism, and cultural potential severely wounded by the lasting legacy of the USSR. Also their food often sucks. You’re not going to see trendy fermented milk restaurants in NYC or LA, so you’re not going to see much wider cultural interest beyond Bald and Bankrupt or if Vice’s old tourism journalism style became popular again.

>>2797

Central Asia has some unique geographical challenges that make it stunningly remote. Imagine if the USA didn’t have the Great Lakes or Mississippi and was just a repeating patchwork of Oklahoma-Utah-Nevada for thousands of miles. There is a 900 mile long navigable river, the Amu Darya, but it terminates in a dying salt lake the Aral Sea. The closest Sea to the Aral Sea is another dying salt lake, the Caspian Sea, which doesn’t connect to a larger ocean. The Russian Black Sea port in Rostov is a further 1200 miles away from the Aral Sea. Other transit options would seemingly involve transit through underdeveloped places in Iran or Afghanistan and Pakistan. Those dying seas? Central Asia was the victim of disastrous USSR and post-USSR ecological policies. USSR policies of resettlement of other ethnicities, such as Russians, into Central Asia were essentially efforts to destroy nomadic tribal forms of life. The idea was to bring the Soviet vision of industry and agriculture to Central Asia and purge perceived property owners from power. The Soviet agricultural vision was nearly completely incompatible with the arid steppe. The countries were too big to destroy nomadic culture, but there were lasting effects. For a time, I believe Kazakhstan was majority ethnic Russian due to the forms of soft genocide that were the norm under USSR colonization. Building a highly polluting nuclear and rocketry industry does not make up for the damage done to Kazakhstan, for example. Central Asian industries having to ship products 1500+ miles to a potentially corrupt or hostile foreign ports for Ocean access inherently puts them at a severe disadvantage. But it’s even worse than this as Central Asia has had its industrial capacity, tourism, and cultural potential severely wounded by the lasting legacy of the USSR. Also their food often sucks. You’re not going to see trendy fermented milk restaurants in NYC or LA, so you’re not going to see much wider cultural interest beyond Bald and Bankrupt or if Vice’s old tourism journalism style became popular again.

why can't they fly the things out

>>2797

Central Asia has some unique geographical challenges that make it stunningly remote. Imagine if the USA didn’t have the Great Lakes or Mississippi and was just a repeating patchwork of Oklahoma-Utah-Nevada for thousands of miles. There is a 900 mile long navigable river, the Amu Darya, but it terminates in a dying salt lake the Aral Sea. The closest Sea to the Aral Sea is another dying salt lake, the Caspian Sea, which doesn’t connect to a larger ocean. The Russian Black Sea port in Rostov is a further 1200 miles away from the Aral Sea. Other transit options would seemingly involve transit through underdeveloped places in Iran or Afghanistan and Pakistan. Those dying seas? Central Asia was the victim of disastrous USSR and post-USSR ecological policies. USSR policies of resettlement of other ethnicities, such as Russians, into Central Asia were essentially efforts to destroy nomadic tribal forms of life. The idea was to bring the Soviet vision of industry and agriculture to Central Asia and purge perceived property owners from power. The Soviet agricultural vision was nearly completely incompatible with the arid steppe. The countries were too big to destroy nomadic culture, but there were lasting effects. For a time, I believe Kazakhstan was majority ethnic Russian due to the forms of soft genocide that were the norm under USSR colonization. Building a highly polluting nuclear and rocketry industry does not make up for the damage done to Kazakhstan, for example. Central Asian industries having to ship products 1500+ miles to a potentially corrupt or hostile foreign ports for Ocean access inherently puts them at a severe disadvantage. But it’s even worse than this as Central Asia has had its industrial capacity, tourism, and cultural potential severely wounded by the lasting legacy of the USSR. Also their food often sucks. You’re not going to see trendy fermented milk restaurants in NYC or LA, so you’re not going to see much wider cultural interest beyond Bald and Bankrupt or if Vice’s old tourism journalism style became popular again.

Kinda weird answer but ok. I don’t get your point about the ports tho, just fly the things out, like they have airports over there, no? Or is there something I’m missing?

Bit of an odd recommendation but I encourage people to watch The Grand Tour 'Mongolian Special' entertaining bit of television and I think it gives a sense of what that part of the world is like.

Russian puppet states and terrorists

>>2806

Bit of an odd recommendation but I encourage people to watch The Grand Tour 'Mongolian Special' entertaining bit of television and I think it gives a sense of what that part of the world is like.

Haven't seen The Grand Tour, but I remember Long Way Round being pretty interesting when they went through central Asia. Is it anything like that?

>>2817

>>2806 Haven't seen The Grand Tour, but I remember Long Way Round being pretty interesting when they went through central Asia. Is it anything like that?

Yeah I would say it has similarities, obviously being Top Gear it's more of an overt farce but the central themes are still there. What I remember being interesting from the Long Way Round trip is that they're quite aware of how much they're being propagandised, while that critical element isn't really there in the Grand Tour one. But then again they don't really encounter anyone in the Grand Tour episode, and you can't really propagandise a landscape in the same way as you can a culture.

>>2797

Central Asia has some unique geographical challenges that make it stunningly remote. Imagine if the USA didn’t have the Great Lakes or Mississippi and was just a repeating patchwork of Oklahoma-Utah-Nevada for thousands of miles. There is a 900 mile long navigable river, the Amu Darya, but it terminates in a dying salt lake the Aral Sea. The closest Sea to the Aral Sea is another dying salt lake, the Caspian Sea, which doesn’t connect to a larger ocean. The Russian Black Sea port in Rostov is a further 1200 miles away from the Aral Sea. Other transit options would seemingly involve transit through underdeveloped places in Iran or Afghanistan and Pakistan. Those dying seas? Central Asia was the victim of disastrous USSR and post-USSR ecological policies. USSR policies of resettlement of other ethnicities, such as Russians, into Central Asia were essentially efforts to destroy nomadic tribal forms of life. The idea was to bring the Soviet vision of industry and agriculture to Central Asia and purge perceived property owners from power. The Soviet agricultural vision was nearly completely incompatible with the arid steppe. The countries were too big to destroy nomadic culture, but there were lasting effects. For a time, I believe Kazakhstan was majority ethnic Russian due to the forms of soft genocide that were the norm under USSR colonization. Building a highly polluting nuclear and rocketry industry does not make up for the damage done to Kazakhstan, for example. Central Asian industries having to ship products 1500+ miles to a potentially corrupt or hostile foreign ports for Ocean access inherently puts them at a severe disadvantage. But it’s even worse than this as Central Asia has had its industrial capacity, tourism, and cultural potential severely wounded by the lasting legacy of the USSR. Also their food often sucks. You’re not going to see trendy fermented milk restaurants in NYC or LA, so you’re not going to see much wider cultural interest beyond Bald and Bankrupt or if Vice’s old tourism journalism style became popular again.

>You’re not going to see trendy fermented milk restaurants in NYC or LA Frame it as a decolonized ancestral probiotic and we're cooking

What’s a slur for people from Central Asia?

I knew a guy who's been there he said when he visited he saw a man walking around completely clothesless. He was 'protecting' the town through his own violent efforts. Makes me think of William Blake, of the Bible, of the Wheel of Time, of Ezra Pound. What is the most you would do to save your town is a question they ask over there. To some, it would include the total sexual subjugation of a male who looks just like him, inviting accusations of participating in incest in his youth. The pictures the guy I knew showed me were very beautiful. Impressionist readymades. I could already hear the ringing of sitar music and see camels bobbing their heads to the beat whilst bédouins smoke from a hookah in my minds eyes and ears just from seeing those images. Definitely will be visiting soon

>>2943

I knew a guy who's been there he said when he visited he saw a man walking around completely clothesless. He was 'protecting' the town through his own violent efforts. Makes me think of William Blake, of the Bible, of the Wheel of Time, of Ezra Pound. What is the most you would do to save your town is a question they ask over there. To some, it would include the total sexual subjugation of a male who looks just like him, inviting accusations of participating in incest in his youth. The pictures the guy I knew showed me were very beautiful. Impressionist readymades. I could already hear the ringing of sitar music and see camels bobbing their heads to the beat whilst bédouins smoke from a hookah in my minds eyes and ears just from seeing those images. Definitely will be visiting soon

Wtf

>>2797

Central Asia has some unique geographical challenges that make it stunningly remote. Imagine if the USA didn’t have the Great Lakes or Mississippi and was just a repeating patchwork of Oklahoma-Utah-Nevada for thousands of miles. There is a 900 mile long navigable river, the Amu Darya, but it terminates in a dying salt lake the Aral Sea. The closest Sea to the Aral Sea is another dying salt lake, the Caspian Sea, which doesn’t connect to a larger ocean. The Russian Black Sea port in Rostov is a further 1200 miles away from the Aral Sea. Other transit options would seemingly involve transit through underdeveloped places in Iran or Afghanistan and Pakistan. Those dying seas? Central Asia was the victim of disastrous USSR and post-USSR ecological policies. USSR policies of resettlement of other ethnicities, such as Russians, into Central Asia were essentially efforts to destroy nomadic tribal forms of life. The idea was to bring the Soviet vision of industry and agriculture to Central Asia and purge perceived property owners from power. The Soviet agricultural vision was nearly completely incompatible with the arid steppe. The countries were too big to destroy nomadic culture, but there were lasting effects. For a time, I believe Kazakhstan was majority ethnic Russian due to the forms of soft genocide that were the norm under USSR colonization. Building a highly polluting nuclear and rocketry industry does not make up for the damage done to Kazakhstan, for example. Central Asian industries having to ship products 1500+ miles to a potentially corrupt or hostile foreign ports for Ocean access inherently puts them at a severe disadvantage. But it’s even worse than this as Central Asia has had its industrial capacity, tourism, and cultural potential severely wounded by the lasting legacy of the USSR. Also their food often sucks. You’re not going to see trendy fermented milk restaurants in NYC or LA, so you’re not going to see much wider cultural interest beyond Bald and Bankrupt or if Vice’s old tourism journalism style became popular again.

I've heard this regarding the food before, but honestly it sounds pretty interesting. I love kefir and most fermented things though. These people must have a robust microbiome.

I became interested in the region after reading Kaoru Mori's excellent manga Otoyomegatari.

>>2805

>>2797 Kinda weird answer but ok. I don’t get your point about the ports tho, just fly the things out, like they have airports over there, no? Or is there something I’m missing?

>>2799

>>2797 why can't they fly the things out

Air freight is expensive. It makes a lot of sense for relatively small, high value goods. If these countries were making computer chips or $2000 blocks of fancy cheese, their remoteness wouldn’t be an obstacle. But they need to be able to build up their economies to have the capital and talent to develop many different advanced and luxury industries. How are they going to air freight heavy, bulky, low profit margin goods such as bolts, rebar, crankshafts, plastic consumer products to fund the capital development to get to that point? China, Vietnam, India can just ship this stuff via cheap cargo ships. Central Asia has a severe disadvantage. I guess the larger point is that because they cannot easily trade with the world it’s not easy for them to have cultural influence on the world. Then again, perhaps Central Asia will become like so many other remote locations that become irresistible to tourists due to their remoteness.

>>3121

>>2805 >>2799 Air freight is expensive. It makes a lot of sense for relatively small, high value goods. If these countries were making computer chips or $2000 blocks of fancy cheese, their remoteness wouldn’t be an obstacle. But they need to be able to build up their economies to have the capital and talent to develop many different advanced and luxury industries. How are they going to air freight heavy, bulky, low profit margin goods such as bolts, rebar, crankshafts, plastic consumer products to fund the capital development to get to that point? China, Vietnam, India can just ship this stuff via cheap cargo ships. Central Asia has a severe disadvantage. I guess the larger point is that because they cannot easily trade with the world it’s not easy for them to have cultural influence on the world. Then again, perhaps Central Asia will become like so many other remote locations that become irresistible to tourists due to their remoteness.

I imagine most ppl interested in visiting central Asia (myself included) are due to its remoteness, stark difference to most locations, and very low cost, comparative to USA and western Europe. If it became expensive, the appeal would perhaps be lost.

Bumping for Central Asia's sake.

I spent some weeks backpacking around Uzbekistan and Tajikistan last year. Both are quite special in their own regard. For context, I am in my late twenties and from western Europe. UZBEKISTAN Uzbekistan is doubly landlocked: not even its neighbouring countries have access to an ocean. In the entire world, it only shares this feature with Liechtenstein. Well-aware of this disadvantage they have focused on producing as much as they can in-house. This is immediately visible once you step outside the airport; Every car you see is a Chevrolet, and the vast majority of them white. There is only one car factory in the country, which is wholly owned by the state. Foreign cars are subject to a tariff, although it has dropped in the past few years. None of this knowledge will prepare you for the absolutely bewildering sight of a sea of white Chevys. It's a good metaphor for the culture as well. You can tell that a lot of it developed parallel to the now globalised cultured, yet with enough influences seeping through that it's still recognisable and navigable. Yet, do not expect anyone to speak English, not even those employed in the tourism sector. Uzbek and Russian are your only options, and my choice for travelling the country without mobile internet made this a real challenge as I know neither. Uzbeks are luckily very welcoming to tourists and you'll receive quite some attention if you do not look like you're from an ex-USSR country (which makes up the vast majority of its meagre tourist count). Most of their cuisine is nothing incredible, usually a combination of roast vegetables and roast meat. The bread, however, is out of this world. I used to subscribe to the theory that people consider the bread that they grew up on the best. Not anymore. Uzbek bread is exceptional and a treat on its own. Combine this with any of the soups they serve and you might think a man needs no other sustenance in life. I still think about it often. In general, it seemed like a mostly functional country. There is a well-developed train system that takes you to most of the big cities, traversing miles upon miles of empty desert, interspersed with towns that grew around an enormous mine or factory, many of them initiated by the USSR. There are some quirks, like the way Samarqand has been (re)designed to hide poorer neighbourhoods from tourists that come to visit its almost unreasonably impressive mosques and palaces. It also relies heavily on cotton farming, for which the government "enlists" public servants, among others, for the harvest season. This used to include kids, but they've been working on it after major international boycotts. TAJIKISTAN The difference between the two is almost immediately noticeable after crossing the border (where your very presence may already be confusing to the border security, especially if you do it on foot). Tajikistan is a mountainous country, pretty much all over, and noticeably poorer. I saw much more sustenance farming here than I have in most places I have visited. As you go deeper into the mountains it truly feels like you're travelling back in time. I have to admit I really enjoyed that process. There is even less tourism here than in Uzbekistan, most western tourists tend to be over 50 and participating in a group tour, or adventure travellers there for cycling or mountain hiking. The landscapes are impressive and it's easy to see what draws the latter in. The country is unfortunately struggling with massive deforestation, both due to pastoral farming as well as gathering wood as a domestic fuel. Tajiks are just as kind to tourists as Uzbeks. I never unsafe in either country. Accomodation options are even more limited in Tajikistan, and the few that are present seem to aim for the sparse upper-middle-class domestic travellers, which can make them weirdly expensive for what you're getting. It was not unusual for me to be the only guest in a hotel. Food is somewhat worse than Uzbekistan, as is food hygiene (I'll spare you details). Transport consists mostly of mashrutkas (minivans/minibuses) for short to medium distances, as in Uzbekistan, and shared sedan taxis for longer distances. For these, you have to wait for them to fill up unless you're willing to pay for every seat. It's a test in patience. Soviet influences were less pronounced in Tajikistan, but still noticeable in artworks and attitude. Both countries were very cheap, Tajikistan more so. 50$ a day is a royal budget, I did it on way less. As the relationship between Uzbekistan and Tajikistan seems quite good, compared to their other neighbours, the economies on the border are closely intertwined. I'm not an economist, but I think this might be the reason why their currencies are essentially pegged. I never saw any animosity from either towards the other, which is more than can be said for Kyrgyzstan. Anyway, I had a great time even though travelling in the region was particularly challenging in my usual improvised style. I'll happily answer questions.

>>4300

I spent some weeks backpacking around Uzbekistan and Tajikistan last year. Both are quite special in their own regard. For context, I am in my late twenties and from western Europe. UZBEKISTAN Uzbekistan is doubly landlocked: not even its neighbouring countries have access to an ocean. In the entire world, it only shares this feature with Liechtenstein. Well-aware of this disadvantage they have focused on producing as much as they can in-house. This is immediately visible once you step outside the airport; Every car you see is a Chevrolet, and the vast majority of them white. There is only one car factory in the country, which is wholly owned by the state. Foreign cars are subject to a tariff, although it has dropped in the past few years. None of this knowledge will prepare you for the absolutely bewildering sight of a sea of white Chevys. It's a good metaphor for the culture as well. You can tell that a lot of it developed parallel to the now globalised cultured, yet with enough influences seeping through that it's still recognisable and navigable. Yet, do not expect anyone to speak English, not even those employed in the tourism sector. Uzbek and Russian are your only options, and my choice for travelling the country without mobile internet made this a real challenge as I know neither. Uzbeks are luckily very welcoming to tourists and you'll receive quite some attention if you do not look like you're from an ex-USSR country (which makes up the vast majority of its meagre tourist count). Most of their cuisine is nothing incredible, usually a combination of roast vegetables and roast meat. The bread, however, is out of this world. I used to subscribe to the theory that people consider the bread that they grew up on the best. Not anymore. Uzbek bread is exceptional and a treat on its own. Combine this with any of the soups they serve and you might think a man needs no other sustenance in life. I still think about it often. In general, it seemed like a mostly functional country. There is a well-developed train system that takes you to most of the big cities, traversing miles upon miles of empty desert, interspersed with towns that grew around an enormous mine or factory, many of them initiated by the USSR. There are some quirks, like the way Samarqand has been (re)designed to hide poorer neighbourhoods from tourists that come to visit its almost unreasonably impressive mosques and palaces. It also relies heavily on cotton farming, for which the government "enlists" public servants, among others, for the harvest season. This used to include kids, but they've been working on it after major international boycotts. TAJIKISTAN The difference between the two is almost immediately noticeable after crossing the border (where your very presence may already be confusing to the border security, especially if you do it on foot). Tajikistan is a mountainous country, pretty much all over, and noticeably poorer. I saw much more sustenance farming here than I have in most places I have visited. As you go deeper into the mountains it truly feels like you're travelling back in time. I have to admit I really enjoyed that process. There is even less tourism here than in Uzbekistan, most western tourists tend to be over 50 and participating in a group tour, or adventure travellers there for cycling or mountain hiking. The landscapes are impressive and it's easy to see what draws the latter in. The country is unfortunately struggling with massive deforestation, both due to pastoral farming as well as gathering wood as a domestic fuel. Tajiks are just as kind to tourists as Uzbeks. I never unsafe in either country. Accomodation options are even more limited in Tajikistan, and the few that are present seem to aim for the sparse upper-middle-class domestic travellers, which can make them weirdly expensive for what you're getting. It was not unusual for me to be the only guest in a hotel. Food is somewhat worse than Uzbekistan, as is food hygiene (I'll spare you details). Transport consists mostly of mashrutkas (minivans/minibuses) for short to medium distances, as in Uzbekistan, and shared sedan taxis for longer distances. For these, you have to wait for them to fill up unless you're willing to pay for every seat. It's a test in patience. Soviet influences were less pronounced in Tajikistan, but still noticeable in artworks and attitude. Both countries were very cheap, Tajikistan more so. 50$ a day is a royal budget, I did it on way less. As the relationship between Uzbekistan and Tajikistan seems quite good, compared to their other neighbours, the economies on the border are closely intertwined. I'm not an economist, but I think this might be the reason why their currencies are essentially pegged. I never saw any animosity from either towards the other, which is more than can be said for Kyrgyzstan. Anyway, I had a great time even though travelling in the region was particularly challenging in my usual improvised style. I'll happily answer questions.

Really interesting, thanks for posting. I want some Uzbek bread now. Please share more about your travels!

>>4327

>>4300 Really interesting, thanks for posting. I want some Uzbek bread now. Please share more about your travels!

The bread is truly something else. I've tried to recreate it and didn't get close. In terms of flavour it reminds me of Georgian bread, which could make sense seeing as they were both important stops on the silk road, some cultural exchange has taken place over centuries. Much like Georgian bread it is baked by slapping it onto the wall of a giant wood-fired oven (tandoor). They look entirely different though. Georgian bread comes in lots of shapes, but rarely receives the meticulous attention that Uzbek bread gets. Every Uzbek round bread is a work of art, diligently formed, scored, and usually stamped in the middle with a "chekich", an array of "nails" in a pretty shape. Picrel. If you have some (but not all that much) time and money, I'd definitely recommend visiting Uzbekistan. Its culture is a strange mix of Ottoman and Slavic influences, with some Caucasian and South Asian sprinkled in. A week should suffice, 10 days would be more comfortable. If you're coming in from Europe it's likely you'll have to fly through Istanbul, but that's comfortable enough. If you're not a travel purist bonehead like me it'd be very easy as well, just book your accomodation and trains in advance. The train system is astonishingly good. Tajikistan is harder in almost every regard and I'd only recommend it if you have some experience travelling in non-western cultures *and* have something specific in mind you expect from that trip, such as mountain hiking.

>>4340

>>4327 The bread is truly something else. I've tried to recreate it and didn't get close. In terms of flavour it reminds me of Georgian bread, which could make sense seeing as they were both important stops on the silk road, some cultural exchange has taken place over centuries. Much like Georgian bread it is baked by slapping it onto the wall of a giant wood-fired oven (tandoor). They look entirely different though. Georgian bread comes in lots of shapes, but rarely receives the meticulous attention that Uzbek bread gets. Every Uzbek round bread is a work of art, diligently formed, scored, and usually stamped in the middle with a "chekich", an array of "nails" in a pretty shape. Picrel. If you have some (but not all that much) time and money, I'd definitely recommend visiting Uzbekistan. Its culture is a strange mix of Ottoman and Slavic influences, with some Caucasian and South Asian sprinkled in. A week should suffice, 10 days would be more comfortable. If you're coming in from Europe it's likely you'll have to fly through Istanbul, but that's comfortable enough. If you're not a travel purist bonehead like me it'd be very easy as well, just book your accomodation and trains in advance. The train system is astonishingly good. Tajikistan is harder in almost every regard and I'd only recommend it if you have some experience travelling in non-western cultures *and* have something specific in mind you expect from that trip, such as mountain hiking.

what was your itinerary in Uzbekistan?

>>4300

I spent some weeks backpacking around Uzbekistan and Tajikistan last year. Both are quite special in their own regard. For context, I am in my late twenties and from western Europe. UZBEKISTAN Uzbekistan is doubly landlocked: not even its neighbouring countries have access to an ocean. In the entire world, it only shares this feature with Liechtenstein. Well-aware of this disadvantage they have focused on producing as much as they can in-house. This is immediately visible once you step outside the airport; Every car you see is a Chevrolet, and the vast majority of them white. There is only one car factory in the country, which is wholly owned by the state. Foreign cars are subject to a tariff, although it has dropped in the past few years. None of this knowledge will prepare you for the absolutely bewildering sight of a sea of white Chevys. It's a good metaphor for the culture as well. You can tell that a lot of it developed parallel to the now globalised cultured, yet with enough influences seeping through that it's still recognisable and navigable. Yet, do not expect anyone to speak English, not even those employed in the tourism sector. Uzbek and Russian are your only options, and my choice for travelling the country without mobile internet made this a real challenge as I know neither. Uzbeks are luckily very welcoming to tourists and you'll receive quite some attention if you do not look like you're from an ex-USSR country (which makes up the vast majority of its meagre tourist count). Most of their cuisine is nothing incredible, usually a combination of roast vegetables and roast meat. The bread, however, is out of this world. I used to subscribe to the theory that people consider the bread that they grew up on the best. Not anymore. Uzbek bread is exceptional and a treat on its own. Combine this with any of the soups they serve and you might think a man needs no other sustenance in life. I still think about it often. In general, it seemed like a mostly functional country. There is a well-developed train system that takes you to most of the big cities, traversing miles upon miles of empty desert, interspersed with towns that grew around an enormous mine or factory, many of them initiated by the USSR. There are some quirks, like the way Samarqand has been (re)designed to hide poorer neighbourhoods from tourists that come to visit its almost unreasonably impressive mosques and palaces. It also relies heavily on cotton farming, for which the government "enlists" public servants, among others, for the harvest season. This used to include kids, but they've been working on it after major international boycotts. TAJIKISTAN The difference between the two is almost immediately noticeable after crossing the border (where your very presence may already be confusing to the border security, especially if you do it on foot). Tajikistan is a mountainous country, pretty much all over, and noticeably poorer. I saw much more sustenance farming here than I have in most places I have visited. As you go deeper into the mountains it truly feels like you're travelling back in time. I have to admit I really enjoyed that process. There is even less tourism here than in Uzbekistan, most western tourists tend to be over 50 and participating in a group tour, or adventure travellers there for cycling or mountain hiking. The landscapes are impressive and it's easy to see what draws the latter in. The country is unfortunately struggling with massive deforestation, both due to pastoral farming as well as gathering wood as a domestic fuel. Tajiks are just as kind to tourists as Uzbeks. I never unsafe in either country. Accomodation options are even more limited in Tajikistan, and the few that are present seem to aim for the sparse upper-middle-class domestic travellers, which can make them weirdly expensive for what you're getting. It was not unusual for me to be the only guest in a hotel. Food is somewhat worse than Uzbekistan, as is food hygiene (I'll spare you details). Transport consists mostly of mashrutkas (minivans/minibuses) for short to medium distances, as in Uzbekistan, and shared sedan taxis for longer distances. For these, you have to wait for them to fill up unless you're willing to pay for every seat. It's a test in patience. Soviet influences were less pronounced in Tajikistan, but still noticeable in artworks and attitude. Both countries were very cheap, Tajikistan more so. 50$ a day is a royal budget, I did it on way less. As the relationship between Uzbekistan and Tajikistan seems quite good, compared to their other neighbours, the economies on the border are closely intertwined. I'm not an economist, but I think this might be the reason why their currencies are essentially pegged. I never saw any animosity from either towards the other, which is more than can be said for Kyrgyzstan. Anyway, I had a great time even though travelling in the region was particularly challenging in my usual improvised style. I'll happily answer questions.

What took you to those countries? Seconding >>4351

>>4340 what was your itinerary in Uzbekistan?

, what was your day to day like? Did you just decide on whims what to do, or did you have a lot of preplanning? Where did you fly into, and what was the plane ticket prices like?

>>4351

>>4340 what was your itinerary in Uzbekistan?

Flew into Samarkand, marvelled at its incredible mosques and mausoleums. Probably the most touristy spot in the country, but it's certainly not Paris or Rome. Nice city to stroll around in, yet I remember a distinct shortage of places to eat at. Took a (very comfortable, scenic) train to Tashkent, the capital. Bombastic architecture and monuments, really quite something. Spent most of my time just strolling around. Really cool and well-developed subway system. One of my nights there I stumbled upon "Magic City Park", a Disneyland knockoff minus the attractions. Very weird. Seemed to be aimed at Russians? I asked for a menu in one place and was given one in Russian, when I asked for the Uzbek version I was told they didn't have one. I'm not entirely sure what I was trying to achieve anyway, it's not like I understand Uzbek either. I then took an incredibly scenic train ride through Uzbekistan's mountains into the Fergana valley to the city of Kokand, loved that ride. This is a more "provincial" town, but it still has some really impressive buildings. I managed to bluff my way into a pretty big art conference here just by being a non-Uzbek in a non-touristy town. From there I crossed into Tajikistan and traversed it over the course of two weeks, crossing back into Uzbekistan and flying out of Samarkand again. >>4354

>>4300 What took you to those countries? Seconding >>4351, what was your day to day like? Did you just decide on whims what to do, or did you have a lot of preplanning? Where did you fly into, and what was the plane ticket prices like?

I think flights from Europe were around €400-450 return. As for the why, I've done a lot of travelling in my life. It's one of the few things I actually spend money on. I've been to most of Europe, spent a lot of time in South-East Asia and Central America; After a while you get curious about places that might still give you a culture shock, or places that haven't gotten used to tourism yet. I've been mocked in the past for wanting more "authentic" experiences when I complained about popularised destinations catering to western tourists, but I'm of the opinion that if you're gonna seek out the comforts you have back at home you might as well stay there (unless you just need some well-deserved beach time, but we're talking about travelling, not a vacay). I got interested in the region because of my interest in mountain hiking, reading stories about the Mongol Rally, and my time in Georgia and having learned about the silk road. How much I plan depends on the country I'm travelling in. Usually I have an idea of the general direction I'm headed in before I go (in this case I had that loop in my mind). Specific places I'll visit along the way become clear about week before I get there, but actual planning rarely stretches more than 48h ahead. This allows me to stay longer in places that I like more than I anticipated, or just continue onwards if it's not to my taste. (I'm travelling in El Salvador right now and have been really happy to have this kind of flexibility. Tourism here is still very fresh it's hard to gauge what a place will be like, and some of them have really surprised me, both positively and negatively.) Uzbekistan was a bit of an exception as I got a little bit concerned about the trains so booked them a week or so in advance. I also sorted out my guesthouse in Samarkand, as I always try to get my accomodation for the places I fly in/out to get that off my mind (you don't want to go around looking for a place after a long flight). On-the-fly travelling is getting harder, I've seen it change a lot in the past 10 years. Some ho(s)tel employees are genuinely confused nowadays if you show up without a reservation. It has become much less of an option in western countries, where I'll often book a night somewhere at least the day before. Depending on the place, popularity, and time of year you might get a good deal on a last minute, or get absolutely shafted. But yeah, don't expect to do that kind of old-school backpacking in big cities in Europe or North America. My day to day is usually a lot of walking, easily 10-15km a day, sometimes more. Especially in cultures so foreign to me, I rarely feel the need to spend much time in museums or do some organised activity in my first days/weeks there. I just enjoy soaking in the sights, people watching, and finding quaint spots to eat. Figuring out how to navigate a society you're not familiar with can be a very rewarding process. Order something random off the menu, have a coffee at a café and watch the people go by, dive into a weird antique shop, have a peek in a monumental mosque or small temple, visit a local market in the early hours, ... Try to figure out what the day to day of the people who live there looks like. I do mark a couple of the big sights on my (offline) maps so I have a general idea of where I want to walk to, but I've often found much more interesting spots along the way. If I'm in a place for a few days, I might look around for a vantage point somewhere on a hill in or around the city/town to get a good view of it, bonus points if I get to do that around sunset.

Could you speak on the nature of Uzbekistan? I would like to hear what you saw. My selfish question is I would like to travel through Central Asia and Iran and use some of my enviro degree once I graduate. Do you think there is anyone work on stopping desertification there? The Aral Sea seems particularly tragic to me