/pt/ – Petrarchan

I do empathize to an extent. I myself have spent an embarrassing amount of time on these negative events. Though, nowadays even the speculation of sordid sorrows slips past my hands as though it were sand. At times I feel transformed into a stranger, an alien in this world full of the living. I am getting off-track. Everything around you is bread and circuses, for that is the only thing left. The order of this world consumed, packaged into entertainment.

>>13673

I do empathize to an extent. I myself have spent an embarrassing amount of time on these negative events. Though, nowadays even the speculation of sordid sorrows slips past my hands as though it were sand. At times I feel transformed into a stranger, an alien in this world full of the living. I am getting off-track. Everything around you is bread and circuses, for that is the only thing left. The order of this world consumed, packaged into entertainment.

I dont think that's what "bread and circuses" means

you know those people who keep waiting for a "fall" or "collapse" of the society because they are losers and fantasise about having a new start, more power in the world etc? yea that's me

>>13682

you know those people who keep waiting for a "fall" or "collapse" of the society because they are losers and fantasise about having a new start, more power in the world etc? yea that's me

The world does not change. It remains as unknowable and as strange regardless. For this world is not affected by humans.

>>13678

>>13673 I dont think that's what "bread and circuses" means

Perhaps, perhaps not. The masses consume themselves, gorging on their own bodies and on each other to satisfy themselves. The consumption is made into a spectacle, the degradation of politics into a grand show. Who's the good guy? Who's the bad guy? What will happen next? Nothing changes, but it's at least fun to watch.

>>13706

>>13682 The world does not change. It remains as unknowable and as strange regardless. For this world is not affected by humans.

demonstrably wrong >>13707

>>13678 Perhaps, perhaps not. The masses consume themselves, gorging on their own bodies and on each other to satisfy themselves. The consumption is made into a spectacle, the degradation of politics into a grand show. Who's the good guy? Who's the bad guy? What will happen next? Nothing changes, but it's at least fun to watch.

no, not “perhaps”. It just doesn’t mean that. Words and phrases mean specific things

I think it's fun to be a part of world changing events too :)

>>13672 (OP) I do find the AI revolution quite exciting tbh. It's clearly going to be the biggest change in the world economy since personal computing, maybe since the second industrial revolution.

I agree AI acceleration is good but I can’t comprehend the brain of someone who “roots” (I know you aren’t really rooting for them) for O9A. Literally the only difference between them and something like ISIS is that O9A are less powerful. They need to be crushed

>>13719

>>13706 demonstrably wrong >>13707 no, not “perhaps”. It just doesn’t mean that. Words and phrases mean specific things

>He thinks the world changes You may turn and orient the toys in different set-ups, but at the end of the day it's still just lego pieces and different formats. Nothing really changes.

>>13673

I do empathize to an extent. I myself have spent an embarrassing amount of time on these negative events. Though, nowadays even the speculation of sordid sorrows slips past my hands as though it were sand. At times I feel transformed into a stranger, an alien in this world full of the living. I am getting off-track. Everything around you is bread and circuses, for that is the only thing left. The order of this world consumed, packaged into entertainment.

>>13707

>>13678 Perhaps, perhaps not. The masses consume themselves, gorging on their own bodies and on each other to satisfy themselves. The consumption is made into a spectacle, the degradation of politics into a grand show. Who's the good guy? Who's the bad guy? What will happen next? Nothing changes, but it's at least fun to watch.

>>13734

>>13719 >He thinks the world changes You may turn and orient the toys in different set-ups, but at the end of the day it's still just lego pieces and different formats. Nothing really changes.

dude please stop posting on here the way you write is actually infuriating. I dont even care if it's a bit im gonna have a seizure if I have to read one more of these bloviating masturbatory sentences. I pray to god you are like 16 years old and not a grown adult doing this shit

This way of looking at the world seems adjacent to accelerationism, especially the part about AI. I get where it comes from, it's a break from the tedium of 'nothing ever happens'. But I don't think we're owed an exciting world. It's probably better to concern yourself with the things that are within your control. But then again, who am I to say any of this?

perhaps the larpiest thread on this site

>>13820

perhaps the larpiest thread on this site

Cry about it?

It's a form of modern intellectual narcissism. I say that in a kind way because yes, I'm fascinated with staring at the world and seeing all the moving bits and how it all falls. Nothing excites me more than getting the chance to see the raw face of power show itself to a regular person, like me. My favorite example is the night of February 23, 2022, where only an hour prior to the announcement of the special military operation I could open up the flightradar24 app and watch every single commercial aircraft flying over Ukraine make a 180 out of its airspace at exactly the same time, in real time. It was like a little glimpse at What's Actually Happening. In a similar vein it's why I can't get enough of those maps that show De Jure territorial control and you can see the many unrecognized states and territories that hide from the official mapmakers. But back to the narcissism, it not only establishes the bourgeois viewer of this spectacle as some kind of Cassandra figure, but it also places them in a privileged period of history. Sure, you don't get to live in the radiant aura of Caesar and Augustus and the height of imperial glory, but you get the next best thing: watching what was denied to you be burned down and destroyed or inherited by the barbarians that don't even understand what they're destroying. Unlike you. You get to meditate on the fading embers of a flame the future will never experience. You get the opportunity to have your tragic take on What Went Wrong? and Where Are We Going From Here? stamped on the book of history just like Augustine or Voltaire. Of course, none of this will happen because none of us are politicians, or professors, or historians, or world leaders of any sort (maybe some writers), but it feels like people in the future are going to be looking at this time specifically, more so than other times, and if not then at least this will be a fin de siècle moment and inspire the people of the future as the last golden age before it all went to shit.

>>13824

It's a form of modern intellectual narcissism. I say that in a kind way because yes, I'm fascinated with staring at the world and seeing all the moving bits and how it all falls. Nothing excites me more than getting the chance to see the raw face of power show itself to a regular person, like me. My favorite example is the night of February 23, 2022, where only an hour prior to the announcement of the special military operation I could open up the flightradar24 app and watch every single commercial aircraft flying over Ukraine make a 180 out of its airspace at exactly the same time, in real time. It was like a little glimpse at What's Actually Happening. In a similar vein it's why I can't get enough of those maps that show De Jure territorial control and you can see the many unrecognized states and territories that hide from the official mapmakers. But back to the narcissism, it not only establishes the bourgeois viewer of this spectacle as some kind of Cassandra figure, but it also places them in a privileged period of history. Sure, you don't get to live in the radiant aura of Caesar and Augustus and the height of imperial glory, but you get the next best thing: watching what was denied to you be burned down and destroyed or inherited by the barbarians that don't even understand what they're destroying. Unlike you. You get to meditate on the fading embers of a flame the future will never experience. You get the opportunity to have your tragic take on What Went Wrong? and Where Are We Going From Here? stamped on the book of history just like Augustine or Voltaire. Of course, none of this will happen because none of us are politicians, or professors, or historians, or world leaders of any sort (maybe some writers), but it feels like people in the future are going to be looking at this time specifically, more so than other times, and if not then at least this will be a fin de siècle moment and inspire the people of the future as the last golden age before it all went to shit.

I mostly agree with how you’re characterizing this urge although I don’t know if it’s nessecarily narcissistic to think you’re living in important times worth observing. It’s objectively true that there are some periods of history where *more* things happen than others. And I think it’s inarguable that whether it takes 5 or 50 years it’s gonna become clear that the invention of artificial intelligence will be one of the watershed moments. but even if it wasn’t for ai the 21sr century would surely quantitatively be a more “interesting” time than many many others. I mean, a tenth of all humans who have ever lived are alive right now

It's a cliché at this point, but what is being described here is hyperreality in almost the classic sense.

>>13826

>>13824 I mostly agree with how you’re characterizing this urge although I don’t know if it’s nessecarily narcissistic to think you’re living in important times worth observing. It’s objectively true that there are some periods of history where *more* things happen than others. And I think it’s inarguable that whether it takes 5 or 50 years it’s gonna become clear that the invention of artificial intelligence will be one of the watershed moments. but even if it wasn’t for ai the 21sr century would surely quantitatively be a more “interesting” time than many many others. I mean, a tenth of all humans who have ever lived are alive right now

I don't think it's narcissistic to think you're living in important times worth observing, I think it's narcissistic to feel the perverse glee in those times. I think it's also one thing to keep track of world events and think about what they mean for the future, but it's a different thing entirely to also be "monitoring the situation" and constantly looking for that Rubicon moment, waiting for some apocalyptic collapse that will, as others have said, validate your political and philosophical beliefs. The diary entry of Russian peasant is more meaningful if it was written on November 8, 1917 than November 8, 1913, but that doesn't mean that peasant's opinions are particularly wise or illuminating beyond the fact that is the thoughts of someone living in an important moment in time.

>>13824

It's a form of modern intellectual narcissism. I say that in a kind way because yes, I'm fascinated with staring at the world and seeing all the moving bits and how it all falls. Nothing excites me more than getting the chance to see the raw face of power show itself to a regular person, like me. My favorite example is the night of February 23, 2022, where only an hour prior to the announcement of the special military operation I could open up the flightradar24 app and watch every single commercial aircraft flying over Ukraine make a 180 out of its airspace at exactly the same time, in real time. It was like a little glimpse at What's Actually Happening. In a similar vein it's why I can't get enough of those maps that show De Jure territorial control and you can see the many unrecognized states and territories that hide from the official mapmakers. But back to the narcissism, it not only establishes the bourgeois viewer of this spectacle as some kind of Cassandra figure, but it also places them in a privileged period of history. Sure, you don't get to live in the radiant aura of Caesar and Augustus and the height of imperial glory, but you get the next best thing: watching what was denied to you be burned down and destroyed or inherited by the barbarians that don't even understand what they're destroying. Unlike you. You get to meditate on the fading embers of a flame the future will never experience. You get the opportunity to have your tragic take on What Went Wrong? and Where Are We Going From Here? stamped on the book of history just like Augustine or Voltaire. Of course, none of this will happen because none of us are politicians, or professors, or historians, or world leaders of any sort (maybe some writers), but it feels like people in the future are going to be looking at this time specifically, more so than other times, and if not then at least this will be a fin de siècle moment and inspire the people of the future as the last golden age before it all went to shit.

>Sure, you don't get to live in the radiant aura of Caesar and Augustus and the height of imperial glory, but you get the next best thing: watching what was denied to you be burned down and destroyed or inherited by the barbarians that don't even understand what they're destroying. Narcissistic or not, I certainly feel this is true when it comes to the West. The only thing I disagree with is that this isn’t a good feeling or “second-best.” It is quite crushing actually to realize what is being lost and how long it will take to rebuild, if it ever will be.

>>13864

>>13824 >Sure, you don't get to live in the radiant aura of Caesar and Augustus and the height of imperial glory, but you get the next best thing: watching what was denied to you be burned down and destroyed or inherited by the barbarians that don't even understand what they're destroying. Narcissistic or not, I certainly feel this is true when it comes to the West. The only thing I disagree with is that this isn’t a good feeling or “second-best.” It is quite crushing actually to realize what is being lost and how long it will take to rebuild, if it ever will be.

You presume that you are the natural inheritor of that and it's being denied to you. You also presume that future generations will feel bad for you because you lived in the collapse and not the height.

>>13824

It's a form of modern intellectual narcissism. I say that in a kind way because yes, I'm fascinated with staring at the world and seeing all the moving bits and how it all falls. Nothing excites me more than getting the chance to see the raw face of power show itself to a regular person, like me. My favorite example is the night of February 23, 2022, where only an hour prior to the announcement of the special military operation I could open up the flightradar24 app and watch every single commercial aircraft flying over Ukraine make a 180 out of its airspace at exactly the same time, in real time. It was like a little glimpse at What's Actually Happening. In a similar vein it's why I can't get enough of those maps that show De Jure territorial control and you can see the many unrecognized states and territories that hide from the official mapmakers. But back to the narcissism, it not only establishes the bourgeois viewer of this spectacle as some kind of Cassandra figure, but it also places them in a privileged period of history. Sure, you don't get to live in the radiant aura of Caesar and Augustus and the height of imperial glory, but you get the next best thing: watching what was denied to you be burned down and destroyed or inherited by the barbarians that don't even understand what they're destroying. Unlike you. You get to meditate on the fading embers of a flame the future will never experience. You get the opportunity to have your tragic take on What Went Wrong? and Where Are We Going From Here? stamped on the book of history just like Augustine or Voltaire. Of course, none of this will happen because none of us are politicians, or professors, or historians, or world leaders of any sort (maybe some writers), but it feels like people in the future are going to be looking at this time specifically, more so than other times, and if not then at least this will be a fin de siècle moment and inspire the people of the future as the last golden age before it all went to shit.

>at least this will be a fin de siècle moment and inspire the people of the future as the last golden age before it all went to shit. This feeling is one of the rare universal constants of humanity. Each era just picks a different era to resonate with, but everyone feels as if they're the last to see something grand. It's true, but I wish people would stop behaving as if it was that extraordinary thing. It is as common as death and disease in the history of humanity. Why spend so much time in awe of it? Once it's known, it's known.

>>13672 (OP) I don't particularly feel any glee, but I can also not avert my eyes. Looking less at the internet would be better for my mental health, but something inside my brain forces the urge onto me that I simply must know. Maybe its the only way to cobble some sensible narrative out of it all.

>>13845

>>13826 I don't think it's narcissistic to think you're living in important times worth observing, I think it's narcissistic to feel the perverse glee in those times. I think it's also one thing to keep track of world events and think about what they mean for the future, but it's a different thing entirely to also be "monitoring the situation" and constantly looking for that Rubicon moment, waiting for some apocalyptic collapse that will, as others have said, validate your political and philosophical beliefs. The diary entry of Russian peasant is more meaningful if it was written on November 8, 1917 than November 8, 1913, but that doesn't mean that peasant's opinions are particularly wise or illuminating beyond the fact that is the thoughts of someone living in an important moment in time.

I think you're jumping to conclusions about two things which are 1) that I think there's gonna be a single watershed moment of collapse, or even necessarily a "collapse" at all, and 2) that I have any particular political views which I'm hoping for history to affirm. I didn't mean to imply either of those things. and honestly I think if I *was* an ideologue it'd preclude this kind of worldview

>>13868

>>13672 (OP) I don't particularly feel any glee, but I can also not avert my eyes. Looking less at the internet would be better for my mental health, but something inside my brain forces the urge onto me that I simply must know. Maybe its the only way to cobble some sensible narrative out of it all.

>Looking less at the internet would be better for my mental health its almost 2027 can we drop this charade pls

A feeling I enjoy and try to bask in is feeling like humanity is just a bunch of ants roaming around an ant hill. When I'm in a metro/subway car, I think about how we invented these complex machinations just to be able to move ourselves around quickly and at further distance. Not to get too "dude we're just on a fuckin rock in space...", but I think about this for all modes of transportation. Cars, planes, just little beings needing to be ferried around and do their little ant tasks. I think it's kind of similar to the one described in the OP, less in terms of the "moral" message or culminating effect, but in the "zoomed out", alienating way that we can see humans as pure motion without any sort of telos. A more grotesque example of that is I think of transportation accidents in the same way. A car wreck is like ants getting squashed. On the way to the store and then you get turned into bits of meat. I guess it's like how we naturally distance a dead body from the actual person who it was, as in, that's not Grandpa Joe in the casket, that's the body of Grandpa Joe.

>>13870

>>13845 I think you're jumping to conclusions about two things which are 1) that I think there's gonna be a single watershed moment of collapse, or even necessarily a "collapse" at all, and 2) that I have any particular political views which I'm hoping for history to affirm. I didn't mean to imply either of those things. and honestly I think if I *was* an ideologue it'd preclude this kind of worldview

You're right your original post was more future oriented rather than present/past, that's my bad.

>>13867

>>13824 >at least this will be a fin de siècle moment and inspire the people of the future as the last golden age before it all went to shit. This feeling is one of the rare universal constants of humanity. Each era just picks a different era to resonate with, but everyone feels as if they're the last to see something grand. It's true, but I wish people would stop behaving as if it was that extraordinary thing. It is as common as death and disease in the history of humanity. Why spend so much time in awe of it? Once it's known, it's known.

Do you seriously think people in 1236 thought they were the “last to see something grand”

>>13877

>>13867 Do you seriously think people in 1236 thought they were the “last to see something grand”

Yes, I think so. This guy died in 1202 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joachim_of_Fiore About the same time, all the Graal stories are about the end of knighthood/chivalry. In that same century, the Crusaders lose Jerusalem for good. Next century, you get the Black Death ravaging Europe an era which gave birth to all kind of art pieces about the end of times. I think the idea that the end is imminent has always been common (although not equally shared by all), and it often goes with the idea that "the best is behind us". See these en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalypticism en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eschatology en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collapsology#Precursors

>>13864

>>13824 >Sure, you don't get to live in the radiant aura of Caesar and Augustus and the height of imperial glory, but you get the next best thing: watching what was denied to you be burned down and destroyed or inherited by the barbarians that don't even understand what they're destroying. Narcissistic or not, I certainly feel this is true when it comes to the West. The only thing I disagree with is that this isn’t a good feeling or “second-best.” It is quite crushing actually to realize what is being lost and how long it will take to rebuild, if it ever will be.

>It is quite crushing actually to realize what is being lost which is what exactly? Is there really anything of value that you couldn't easily say has already been lost

Proverbs 17:5 Whoso mocketh the poor reproacheth his Maker: and he that is glad at calamities shall not be unpunished.

>>13883

Proverbs 17:5 Whoso mocketh the poor reproacheth his Maker: and he that is glad at calamities shall not be unpunished.

Fair enough but what’s the alternative exactly?

Uhh I don't know, to grow the fuck up and stop being a mental midget