I am a vegan. I have been a NEET most of my life, being financially dependent upon my father who has his own accounting firm. I worked for my father for a while. My father had a few clients that were ranchers and restaurants and things like that; I never liked working on these files. I recently started working at a logistics company. Part of my work involves drafting paperwork that accompanies each shipment. About 40% of these documents are for vegetable produce, 55% are for things like machinery and building materials, and around 5% is for fish, dairy products, and chicken. I tend to do the work slowly and carelessly when I come across the latter types of files. I considered deliberate sabotage but worried it would be too obvious. I hate myself for voluntarily associating with these companies. I enjoyed the job up until I had to process a shipment for a truckload of thousands of day-old chicks. I found myself trying to rationalize it for a moment, reasoning that I could not be expected to find another job when this was all I could find; but really, I could leave and have chosen not to because I am scared of disappointing my father. I searched for my predicament online and found many vegans rationalizing working at restaurants and grocery stores; this disgusted me. I am fortunate in that I have been able to abstract away the suffering that my existence has caused other living things. I am faced here with a predicament; I do not want to rationalize my actions as necessary or good, because they are neither. But even though I know it should be as easy as seeing myself doing a bad thing and not doing it anymore, I know that I won’t. Is there any way through this kind of sin? The sort you cannot abandon due to cowardice? The obvious answer to my predicament seems to be countering the bad thing I am doing with efforts to combat the availability of meat more broadly (by e.g. supporting efforts to ban certain farming practices), but if we think of these lives as having a more or less equal worth to our own (and intellectually, if not emotionally, I sort of do), then this seems equivalent to handing a gun to someone who then shot a truckload of people but consoling yourself by saying that you worked to pass legislation that would made shooting truckloads of people illegal.
Vegan Logistics Confessional :
Anonymous :
40 days ago :
№ 12936
>>13057
>>12936 (OP)
You are going up against human nature with your own human nature. Your protest will not do a thing as you are fighting water with water. The self-aggrandizing nature of man I dislike, pictured here in perfect form.
>>13562Torturing animals is not good. Paying someone to torture animals is not good either. (keep in mind: humans are part of the animals being tortured, just check out the suicide and depression rates for workers of the meat industry).
It is quite straightforward, anything else is justification and rationalization.
>>12936 (OP)
OP, how is it going? How are you gonna get out of it?
Absolutely insane ragebait. Yes by all means sabotage your father’s money for your own selfish beliefs. Why didn’t this bullshit get a snarky admin comment or the woe is me blog posting about middle age man dating but my post actually about a redscare adjacent film did?
try to find another job (secretly). do not tell your father about the sabotage. and ignore the guy who's calling your beliefs selfish in this thread
We have taken on a new client that produces parts for the manufacturing of tanks. I have spoken to my boss that will not work with them and now someone else at the company handles their stuff. The evil still happens, but I guess at least my hands are somewhat cleaner than they would be.
The basis of being able to refuse is a good standing at the company though, which you probably will not have yet if you are new.
Anonymous :
35 days ago :
№ 13047
>>13065 >>13080
>>13047
By 'getting involved with politics' do you mean voting blue or harassing people on the internet
incredibly narcissistic to think your little act of rebellion will make any difference
if it is important to you to make a positive impact then you need to get involved with politics, you're torturing yourself for nothing otherwise
>>12936 (OP)
You are going up against human nature with your own human nature. Your protest will not do a thing as you are fighting water with water. The self-aggrandizing nature of man I dislike, pictured here in perfect form.
>>13047
incredibly narcissistic to think your little act of rebellion will make any difference
if it is important to you to make a positive impact then you need to get involved with politics, you're torturing yourself for nothing otherwise
>>13057>>12936 (OP)
You are going up against human nature with your own human nature. Your protest will not do a thing as you are fighting water with water. The self-aggrandizing nature of man I dislike, pictured here in perfect form.
Self-aggrandizing is what you’re doing by posting here.
Anonymous :
34 days ago :
№ 13069
>>13075
>>13069
We are animals. Animals eat other animals without any sense of "morality" because that is what they are meant to do. Pretending that we aren't animals and something "exceptional" is what I dislike.
Dude thinks about the moral consequences of his actions and you smoothbrain retards are calling him narcissistic and self-aggrandizing because you can't imagine having higher ideals besides being bigots online
>>13069
Dude thinks about the moral consequences of his actions and you smoothbrain retards are calling him narcissistic and self-aggrandizing because you can't imagine having higher ideals besides being bigots online
We are animals. Animals eat other animals without any sense of "morality" because that is what they are meant to do. Pretending that we aren't animals and something "exceptional" is what I dislike.
>>13047
incredibly narcissistic to think your little act of rebellion will make any difference
if it is important to you to make a positive impact then you need to get involved with politics, you're torturing yourself for nothing otherwise
By 'getting involved with politics' do you mean voting blue or harassing people on the internet
Anonymous :
15 days ago :
№ 13452
>>13467
>>13452
You are right to acknowledge the moral dilemma instead of brushing it aside, but this is passive-aggressive childish behavior.
Admit that you are working against your values for now, because you need to ensure your survival first, but actively work to leave your situation.
Otherwise you are like the battered woman staying home because she feels empowered by the fact that she secretly spit in her husband's coffee every morning. This is slave logic, trading a worthless symbolic victory over proper victory. Try and work at your emancipation rather than negotiating with your chains and your conscience.
I started just ignoring documents for meat shipments when I came across them. There is enough work to do on shift that I could plausibly not have seen them.
>>13452
I started just ignoring documents for meat shipments when I came across them. There is enough work to do on shift that I could plausibly not have seen them.
You are right to acknowledge the moral dilemma instead of brushing it aside, but this is passive-aggressive childish behavior.
Admit that you are working against your values for now, because you need to ensure your survival first, but actively work to leave your situation.
Otherwise you are like the battered woman staying home because she feels empowered by the fact that she secretly spit in her husband's coffee every morning. This is slave logic, trading a worthless symbolic victory over proper victory. Try and work at your emancipation rather than negotiating with your chains and your conscience.
>>13467
>>13452
You are right to acknowledge the moral dilemma instead of brushing it aside, but this is passive-aggressive childish behavior.
Admit that you are working against your values for now, because you need to ensure your survival first, but actively work to leave your situation.
Otherwise you are like the battered woman staying home because she feels empowered by the fact that she secretly spit in her husband's coffee every morning. This is slave logic, trading a worthless symbolic victory over proper victory. Try and work at your emancipation rather than negotiating with your chains and your conscience.
Post 401K
Anonymous :
13 days ago :
№ 13513
>>13516
>>13513
what do you mean by being crushed? population or physical strength? muslims are winning in both regards but how does that undermine the philosophy and lifestyle of Hindus and jains? i feel like I've seen comments like yours before on the board. yea I'm pretty sure I have. youre that guy who says Christian beliefs (and in this case hindu and jain beliefs) are no good because muslims are taking over the world.
you seem you have disdain for muslims and take it out in roundabout ways on other religions. according to you Jesus is also a loser right cause he died?
>>13543
Veganism is a product of a weak society, no offense. Look at be the most vegetarian society of all, Hindu and Jain India. They have spent the last 1000 years getting absolutely crushed by meat eating Muslims. A people who worship cows have no chance against those who eat cows.
>inb4 seething
I myself am vegetarian. I do not pretend to be a strong man, but I am also cognizant of the fact that it is a flaw and not a virtue.
Anonymous :
13 days ago :
№ 13516
>>13529
>>13516
I mean that the Dharmic peoples were wholesale eradicated in what is now Pakistan and Afghanistan, and were (more peacefully, granted) whittled away to a minority in Indonesia. These two worldviews collided, clashed, and the Muslims won. What does that have to do with meat? Well, a Hindu or Jain is concerned with ahmisa, nonviolence. Minimizing harm. A Muslim, in contrast, is concerned with conquest and control and victory. A Hindu shies away from eating meat out of concern for animals. A Muslim takes what he wants. And this is why Muslims win. It is not that meat made them magically strong, but their ability to slaughter to fulfill their desires that made them so.
You can tell me Hindu philosophy is beautiful and you would be right. I would tell you this beauty doesn’t matter, and this lifestyle is doomed to be replaced by its ruthless competitor. That beauty is actually a form of decadence, and the Indians paid for it dearly.
>Jesus
I am not a Christian. I know that there were strong Christians, like the Iberians who pulled off the Reconquista and conquest of the Americas. Modern Christians are not nearly as strong though.
>disdain
I don’t have a disdain for Muslims. Rather I care for my own civilization, and to survive we must learn to have the ruthlessness and strength that Muslims have. Otherwise we will suffer what the Hindus of Pakistan suffered.
I don’t mean to derail this thread, so to link it to veganism: if you are vegan or vegetarian for health reasons, cool. If you’re doing it for some reason like Hindu thinking or concerns on animal welfare, just stop. What you are doing is training yourself to be weak, and you will be overrun by the strong who don’t worry about such things and do what they want.
>>13513
Veganism is a product of a weak society, no offense. Look at be the most vegetarian society of all, Hindu and Jain India. They have spent the last 1000 years getting absolutely crushed by meat eating Muslims. A people who worship cows have no chance against those who eat cows.
>inb4 seething
I myself am vegetarian. I do not pretend to be a strong man, but I am also cognizant of the fact that it is a flaw and not a virtue.
what do you mean by being crushed? population or physical strength? muslims are winning in both regards but how does that undermine the philosophy and lifestyle of Hindus and jains? i feel like I've seen comments like yours before on the board. yea I'm pretty sure I have. youre that guy who says Christian beliefs (and in this case hindu and jain beliefs) are no good because muslims are taking over the world.
you seem you have disdain for muslims and take it out in roundabout ways on other religions. according to you Jesus is also a loser right cause he died?
Anonymous :
13 days ago :
№ 13523
>>13535
>>13523
>What magical components are found in meat, that makes eaters of it uniquely powerful
Souls. Life force. Essence.
What magical components are found in meat, that makes eaters of it uniquely powerful
Nutritional science is (much like you) such a nihilistic hole, no food is better than any other. Tofu or Seitan approach the protein density of meat, plant fats are just as digestible as animal and carbs are found everywhere in the vegan diet.
I know you are lolling about with this "we must seize the production of meat products" theory of history, but you could easily be equating corrolation and causation. Resourceful socities could support husbandry while poorer countries had to subsist on the (far cheaper and ecologically optimal) agarian diet. The consumption and production of meat is just another example of the accursed share, a surplus of energy wasted on luxury
Anonymous :
13 days ago :
№ 13529
>>13530
>>13529
I understand the idea that caring for others is a liability in fights for survival and dominance. But what I don't understand is why, if values like altruism are disposable, would you care about your own civilization at all?
Or, with respect to veganism: If you don't value the well-being of animals (because altruism supposedly breeds weakness), why value the well-being of anyone beside yourself?
>>13548>>13529
How often do you kill, skin, and prepare your meat by hand?
>>13516
>>13513
what do you mean by being crushed? population or physical strength? muslims are winning in both regards but how does that undermine the philosophy and lifestyle of Hindus and jains? i feel like I've seen comments like yours before on the board. yea I'm pretty sure I have. youre that guy who says Christian beliefs (and in this case hindu and jain beliefs) are no good because muslims are taking over the world.
you seem you have disdain for muslims and take it out in roundabout ways on other religions. according to you Jesus is also a loser right cause he died?
I mean that the Dharmic peoples were wholesale eradicated in what is now Pakistan and Afghanistan, and were (more peacefully, granted) whittled away to a minority in Indonesia. These two worldviews collided, clashed, and the Muslims won. What does that have to do with meat? Well, a Hindu or Jain is concerned with ahmisa, nonviolence. Minimizing harm. A Muslim, in contrast, is concerned with conquest and control and victory. A Hindu shies away from eating meat out of concern for animals. A Muslim takes what he wants. And this is why Muslims win. It is not that meat made them magically strong, but their ability to slaughter to fulfill their desires that made them so.
You can tell me Hindu philosophy is beautiful and you would be right. I would tell you this beauty doesn’t matter, and this lifestyle is doomed to be replaced by its ruthless competitor. That beauty is actually a form of decadence, and the Indians paid for it dearly.
>Jesus
I am not a Christian. I know that there were strong Christians, like the Iberians who pulled off the Reconquista and conquest of the Americas. Modern Christians are not nearly as strong though.
>disdain
I don’t have a disdain for Muslims. Rather I care for my own civilization, and to survive we must learn to have the ruthlessness and strength that Muslims have. Otherwise we will suffer what the Hindus of Pakistan suffered.
I don’t mean to derail this thread, so to link it to veganism: if you are vegan or vegetarian for health reasons, cool. If you’re doing it for some reason like Hindu thinking or concerns on animal welfare, just stop. What you are doing is training yourself to be weak, and you will be overrun by the strong who don’t worry about such things and do what they want.
person/place/thing :
13 days ago :
№ 13530
>>13542
>>13530
I value my civilization because I belong to it, I want to see it prosper and be safe. I have altruism for others who belong to it, for we are one.
>>13529
>>13516
I mean that the Dharmic peoples were wholesale eradicated in what is now Pakistan and Afghanistan, and were (more peacefully, granted) whittled away to a minority in Indonesia. These two worldviews collided, clashed, and the Muslims won. What does that have to do with meat? Well, a Hindu or Jain is concerned with ahmisa, nonviolence. Minimizing harm. A Muslim, in contrast, is concerned with conquest and control and victory. A Hindu shies away from eating meat out of concern for animals. A Muslim takes what he wants. And this is why Muslims win. It is not that meat made them magically strong, but their ability to slaughter to fulfill their desires that made them so.
You can tell me Hindu philosophy is beautiful and you would be right. I would tell you this beauty doesn’t matter, and this lifestyle is doomed to be replaced by its ruthless competitor. That beauty is actually a form of decadence, and the Indians paid for it dearly.
>Jesus
I am not a Christian. I know that there were strong Christians, like the Iberians who pulled off the Reconquista and conquest of the Americas. Modern Christians are not nearly as strong though.
>disdain
I don’t have a disdain for Muslims. Rather I care for my own civilization, and to survive we must learn to have the ruthlessness and strength that Muslims have. Otherwise we will suffer what the Hindus of Pakistan suffered.
I don’t mean to derail this thread, so to link it to veganism: if you are vegan or vegetarian for health reasons, cool. If you’re doing it for some reason like Hindu thinking or concerns on animal welfare, just stop. What you are doing is training yourself to be weak, and you will be overrun by the strong who don’t worry about such things and do what they want.
I understand the idea that caring for others is a liability in fights for survival and dominance. But what I don't understand is why, if values like altruism are disposable, would you care about your own civilization at all?
Or, with respect to veganism: If you don't value the well-being of animals (because altruism supposedly breeds weakness), why value the well-being of anyone beside yourself?
>>13523
What magical components are found in meat, that makes eaters of it uniquely powerful
Nutritional science is (much like you) such a nihilistic hole, no food is better than any other. Tofu or Seitan approach the protein density of meat, plant fats are just as digestible as animal and carbs are found everywhere in the vegan diet.
I know you are lolling about with this "we must seize the production of meat products" theory of history, but you could easily be equating corrolation and causation. Resourceful socities could support husbandry while poorer countries had to subsist on the (far cheaper and ecologically optimal) agarian diet. The consumption and production of meat is just another example of the accursed share, a surplus of energy wasted on luxury
>What magical components are found in meat, that makes eaters of it uniquely powerful
Souls. Life force. Essence.
when I was a young man I dated a vegan and she would not kiss on the mouth. I mean, maybe a peck. but not in the normal way. we would fuck and not kiss each other. truly insane behavior, she was incredibly neurotic.
Anonymous :
13 days ago :
№ 13542
>>13550
>>13542
I don't think this attitude is invalid, but it also seems arbitrary. You can make the argument that caring about other members of your civilization makes you more susceptible to domination, be it on an individual, familial, social circle, community, or whatever other scope.
Like virtually everyone, you like caring about (some) others, and you like belonging to an in-group. But where you draw lines for those things is different from most people in a liberal society, and rhetorically a bit of a hard sell.
>>13530
>>13529
I understand the idea that caring for others is a liability in fights for survival and dominance. But what I don't understand is why, if values like altruism are disposable, would you care about your own civilization at all?
Or, with respect to veganism: If you don't value the well-being of animals (because altruism supposedly breeds weakness), why value the well-being of anyone beside yourself?
I value my civilization because I belong to it, I want to see it prosper and be safe. I have altruism for others who belong to it, for we are one.
Anonymous :
13 days ago :
№ 13543
>>13544
>>13543
NTA but,
I don't even count calories... I eat 5-8 lbs of wild raw red meat every day (this includes organs/testes). It gets expensive, so I mostly hunt around public lands eating anything from squirrels to deer.
-Carbs make people soft and moody. They spike, they crash, they whine. I run on pure animal fats/proteins. so my mood swings are non-existent.
-1,500 ng/dL testosterone and rock hard erections
-lightening fast reflexes
I could go on but I think you get it
tell me how your carb-sucking, grain munching, skinnyfat ass is doing.
>>13513
Veganism is a product of a weak society, no offense. Look at be the most vegetarian society of all, Hindu and Jain India. They have spent the last 1000 years getting absolutely crushed by meat eating Muslims. A people who worship cows have no chance against those who eat cows.
>inb4 seething
I myself am vegetarian. I do not pretend to be a strong man, but I am also cognizant of the fact that it is a flaw and not a virtue.
>>13535>>13523
>What magical components are found in meat, that makes eaters of it uniquely powerful
Souls. Life force. Essence.
Tell us how you're currently crushing life, meat-eater, and how meat eating helps you do it.
>>13543
NTA but,
I don't even count calories... I eat 5-8 lbs of wild raw red meat every day (this includes organs/testes). It gets expensive, so I mostly hunt around public lands eating anything from squirrels to deer.
-Carbs make people soft and moody. They spike, they crash, they whine. I run on pure animal fats/proteins. so my mood swings are non-existent.
-1,500 ng/dL testosterone and rock hard erections
-lightening fast reflexes
I could go on but I think you get it
tell me how your carb-sucking, grain munching, skinnyfat ass is doing.
Anonymous :
13 days ago :
№ 13545
>>13546
>>13545
>vegan wants proof of my rock hard erections
Its just not going to happen, son. I'm also not doxxing myself.
So why don't you talk to me about your grain-fed diet and all the wonderful benefits of your goyslop?
>>13544
>>13543
NTA but,
I don't even count calories... I eat 5-8 lbs of wild raw red meat every day (this includes organs/testes). It gets expensive, so I mostly hunt around public lands eating anything from squirrels to deer.
-Carbs make people soft and moody. They spike, they crash, they whine. I run on pure animal fats/proteins. so my mood swings are non-existent.
-1,500 ng/dL testosterone and rock hard erections
-lightening fast reflexes
I could go on but I think you get it
tell me how your carb-sucking, grain munching, skinnyfat ass is doing.
post proof larper
>>13529
>>13516
I mean that the Dharmic peoples were wholesale eradicated in what is now Pakistan and Afghanistan, and were (more peacefully, granted) whittled away to a minority in Indonesia. These two worldviews collided, clashed, and the Muslims won. What does that have to do with meat? Well, a Hindu or Jain is concerned with ahmisa, nonviolence. Minimizing harm. A Muslim, in contrast, is concerned with conquest and control and victory. A Hindu shies away from eating meat out of concern for animals. A Muslim takes what he wants. And this is why Muslims win. It is not that meat made them magically strong, but their ability to slaughter to fulfill their desires that made them so.
You can tell me Hindu philosophy is beautiful and you would be right. I would tell you this beauty doesn’t matter, and this lifestyle is doomed to be replaced by its ruthless competitor. That beauty is actually a form of decadence, and the Indians paid for it dearly.
>Jesus
I am not a Christian. I know that there were strong Christians, like the Iberians who pulled off the Reconquista and conquest of the Americas. Modern Christians are not nearly as strong though.
>disdain
I don’t have a disdain for Muslims. Rather I care for my own civilization, and to survive we must learn to have the ruthlessness and strength that Muslims have. Otherwise we will suffer what the Hindus of Pakistan suffered.
I don’t mean to derail this thread, so to link it to veganism: if you are vegan or vegetarian for health reasons, cool. If you’re doing it for some reason like Hindu thinking or concerns on animal welfare, just stop. What you are doing is training yourself to be weak, and you will be overrun by the strong who don’t worry about such things and do what they want.
How often do you kill, skin, and prepare your meat by hand?
>>13542
>>13530
I value my civilization because I belong to it, I want to see it prosper and be safe. I have altruism for others who belong to it, for we are one.
I don't think this attitude is invalid, but it also seems arbitrary. You can make the argument that caring about other members of your civilization makes you more susceptible to domination, be it on an individual, familial, social circle, community, or whatever other scope.
Like virtually everyone, you like caring about (some) others, and you like belonging to an in-group. But where you draw lines for those things is different from most people in a liberal society, and rhetorically a bit of a hard sell.
Torturing animals is not good. Paying someone to torture animals is not good either. (keep in mind: humans are part of the animals being tortured, just check out the suicide and depression rates for workers of the meat industry).
It is quite straightforward, anything else is justification and rationalization.
>>12936 (OP)
OP, how is it going? How are you gonna get out of it?