Current prose in fiction is self-indulgent. Young authors put off so much gross pride through their words. I’ve always hated it. Every sentence is an attempt at flowery langauge. Everything must be overdescribed (poorly) such that it feels like a teenager wrote it. I too am guilty of this, and it’s primarily why I have never been satisfied with my writing. It is deeply frustrating when you know things you wish to write about are meaningful, and you’re confident in your ability to architect a story - but your own VOICE just disgusts you. I want to learn to be much more terse in my prose. It’s a well-proven style. I love the stark, black-and-white nature of it. Who should I read for inspiration? What writers keep their prose dead simple? The only writer I can really think of like that is Hemingway, who, frankly, I never personally connected with.
Terse Prose :
Anonymous :
9 days ago :
No.11107
>>11112
>>11107 (OP)
The later poetry of James Tate might fit for you. Short kind of aphoristic prose poems.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPJTXOMHTk4
In particular Long-Term Memory is one of my favourites of his
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPJTXOMHTk4?t=1385
I think Long-Term Memory appears in Return to the City of White Donkeys. The Ghost Soldiers I think has a lot of his prose poems, but again they're a large part of his later poetry if you go looking broadly (though I'll say he goes too far towards sentimentality in some cases).
Another book I'd recommend is Person by Sam Pink. I think Sam is kind of dubious as an author, in that his artistry feels somewhat incidental rather than deliberate when I look to the rest of his writings (even when I've enjoyed them), but Person is still a book that impressed me. Very simple, and, out of everything I read by him, felt the most intentional. Pic related is a chapter/passage in particular that struck me. At the start of the book I was pretty skeptical of the style, but it's got its own rhythm and I think works as something more like an internal monologue than a traditional narrative; repetition and canned phrases end up being meaningful aspects of it.
>>11111
Nice quints
>>11122>>11115
>Faulkner
Weird rec when OP is essentially looking for minimalist prose. I've only read Absalom! Absalom! but my impression and every impression I've ever heard of him is that he's overall a maximalist, and if there's terseness buried in there I imagine it's an exception more than anything. You're going to have to elaborate on
>terse in a more experimental way.
>>11107 (OP)
But back to you, OP:
>I love the stark, black-and-white nature of it.
>The only writer I can really think of like that is Hemingway, who, frankly, I never personally connected with.
So have you read anything in this style or not?
>Current prose in fiction is self-indulgent. Young authors put off so much gross pride through their words.
Who are you reading? I know this type of writing is out there, but it's funny to me to hear that as a blanket statement when the other meme of contemporary prose (if a bit dated at this point) is essentially the alt-lit style of terse flat-affect (see Sam Pink and Tao Lin).
>>11159 >>11365>>11107 (OP)
Raymond Carver, the GOAT of American short fiction.
Anonymous :
9 days ago :
No.11111
>>11112
>>11107 (OP)
The later poetry of James Tate might fit for you. Short kind of aphoristic prose poems.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPJTXOMHTk4
In particular Long-Term Memory is one of my favourites of his
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPJTXOMHTk4?t=1385
I think Long-Term Memory appears in Return to the City of White Donkeys. The Ghost Soldiers I think has a lot of his prose poems, but again they're a large part of his later poetry if you go looking broadly (though I'll say he goes too far towards sentimentality in some cases).
Another book I'd recommend is Person by Sam Pink. I think Sam is kind of dubious as an author, in that his artistry feels somewhat incidental rather than deliberate when I look to the rest of his writings (even when I've enjoyed them), but Person is still a book that impressed me. Very simple, and, out of everything I read by him, felt the most intentional. Pic related is a chapter/passage in particular that struck me. At the start of the book I was pretty skeptical of the style, but it's got its own rhythm and I think works as something more like an internal monologue than a traditional narrative; repetition and canned phrases end up being meaningful aspects of it.
>>11111
Nice quints
>>1110
I was also thinking of Camus to rec to OP, though I don't particularly like him /that/ much. In the French though it's hard to get much terser. I think The Plague is a better book.
Prose works outside the English language might suit better for this, I think English is ready for a terse return but isn't there yet. Austen is one I can think of, but she's not quite "terse". Very controlled though, compared to on and on runaway descriptions.
Anonymous :
9 days ago :
No.11112
>>11115
>>11112
thanks.
I also remembered that Faulkner and his progeny might be up OP's alley, though he is terse in a more experimental way.
>>11107 (OP)
The later poetry of James Tate might fit for you. Short kind of aphoristic prose poems.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPJTXOMHTk4
In particular Long-Term Memory is one of my favourites of his
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPJTXOMHTk4?t=1385
I think Long-Term Memory appears in Return to the City of White Donkeys. The Ghost Soldiers I think has a lot of his prose poems, but again they're a large part of his later poetry if you go looking broadly (though I'll say he goes too far towards sentimentality in some cases).
Another book I'd recommend is Person by Sam Pink. I think Sam is kind of dubious as an author, in that his artistry feels somewhat incidental rather than deliberate when I look to the rest of his writings (even when I've enjoyed them), but Person is still a book that impressed me. Very simple, and, out of everything I read by him, felt the most intentional. Pic related is a chapter/passage in particular that struck me. At the start of the book I was pretty skeptical of the style, but it's got its own rhythm and I think works as something more like an internal monologue than a traditional narrative; repetition and canned phrases end up being meaningful aspects of it.
>>11111
>>1110
I was also thinking of Camus to rec to OP, though I don't particularly like him /that/ much. In the French though it's hard to get much terser. I think The Plague is a better book.
Prose works outside the English language might suit better for this, I think English is ready for a terse return but isn't there yet. Austen is one I can think of, but she's not quite "terse". Very controlled though, compared to on and on runaway descriptions.
Nice quints
Anonymous :
8 days ago :
No.11115
>>11122
>>11115
>Faulkner
Weird rec when OP is essentially looking for minimalist prose. I've only read Absalom! Absalom! but my impression and every impression I've ever heard of him is that he's overall a maximalist, and if there's terseness buried in there I imagine it's an exception more than anything. You're going to have to elaborate on
>terse in a more experimental way.
>>11107 (OP)
But back to you, OP:
>I love the stark, black-and-white nature of it.
>The only writer I can really think of like that is Hemingway, who, frankly, I never personally connected with.
So have you read anything in this style or not?
>Current prose in fiction is self-indulgent. Young authors put off so much gross pride through their words.
Who are you reading? I know this type of writing is out there, but it's funny to me to hear that as a blanket statement when the other meme of contemporary prose (if a bit dated at this point) is essentially the alt-lit style of terse flat-affect (see Sam Pink and Tao Lin).
>>11112
>>11107 (OP)
The later poetry of James Tate might fit for you. Short kind of aphoristic prose poems.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPJTXOMHTk4
In particular Long-Term Memory is one of my favourites of his
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPJTXOMHTk4?t=1385
I think Long-Term Memory appears in Return to the City of White Donkeys. The Ghost Soldiers I think has a lot of his prose poems, but again they're a large part of his later poetry if you go looking broadly (though I'll say he goes too far towards sentimentality in some cases).
Another book I'd recommend is Person by Sam Pink. I think Sam is kind of dubious as an author, in that his artistry feels somewhat incidental rather than deliberate when I look to the rest of his writings (even when I've enjoyed them), but Person is still a book that impressed me. Very simple, and, out of everything I read by him, felt the most intentional. Pic related is a chapter/passage in particular that struck me. At the start of the book I was pretty skeptical of the style, but it's got its own rhythm and I think works as something more like an internal monologue than a traditional narrative; repetition and canned phrases end up being meaningful aspects of it.
>>11111
Nice quints
thanks.
I also remembered that Faulkner and his progeny might be up OP's alley, though he is terse in a more experimental way.
Anonymous :
8 days ago :
No.11122
>>11123
>>11122
here's evidence to my retardation : I wrote Faulkner and was thinking of him, but actually meant Cormac McCarthy (who I think is thinking of and in some way aping Faulkner, but has a starker prose). Faulkner is definitely not terse, though he sometimes dips his toes in from what I remember. Ive only read Go Down, Moses though
>>11115
>>11112
thanks.
I also remembered that Faulkner and his progeny might be up OP's alley, though he is terse in a more experimental way.
>Faulkner
Weird rec when OP is essentially looking for minimalist prose. I've only read Absalom! Absalom! but my impression and every impression I've ever heard of him is that he's overall a maximalist, and if there's terseness buried in there I imagine it's an exception more than anything. You're going to have to elaborate on
>terse in a more experimental way.
>>11107 (OP)
But back to you, OP:
>I love the stark, black-and-white nature of it.
>The only writer I can really think of like that is Hemingway, who, frankly, I never personally connected with.
So have you read anything in this style or not?
>Current prose in fiction is self-indulgent. Young authors put off so much gross pride through their words.
Who are you reading? I know this type of writing is out there, but it's funny to me to hear that as a blanket statement when the other meme of contemporary prose (if a bit dated at this point) is essentially the alt-lit style of terse flat-affect (see Sam Pink and Tao Lin).
>>11122
>>11115
>Faulkner
Weird rec when OP is essentially looking for minimalist prose. I've only read Absalom! Absalom! but my impression and every impression I've ever heard of him is that he's overall a maximalist, and if there's terseness buried in there I imagine it's an exception more than anything. You're going to have to elaborate on
>terse in a more experimental way.
>>11107 (OP)
But back to you, OP:
>I love the stark, black-and-white nature of it.
>The only writer I can really think of like that is Hemingway, who, frankly, I never personally connected with.
So have you read anything in this style or not?
>Current prose in fiction is self-indulgent. Young authors put off so much gross pride through their words.
Who are you reading? I know this type of writing is out there, but it's funny to me to hear that as a blanket statement when the other meme of contemporary prose (if a bit dated at this point) is essentially the alt-lit style of terse flat-affect (see Sam Pink and Tao Lin).
here's evidence to my retardation : I wrote Faulkner and was thinking of him, but actually meant Cormac McCarthy (who I think is thinking of and in some way aping Faulkner, but has a starker prose). Faulkner is definitely not terse, though he sometimes dips his toes in from what I remember. Ive only read Go Down, Moses though
Anonymous :
8 days ago :
No.11124
>>11143
>>11124
You might be the only person on the planet who doesn't think Tao is terse. I've taken the Wiktionary definition of "terse" and a random excerpt of Taipei, and superimposed the two. You may elaborate based on the presented texts.
>>11131
It's like this bait was made for me. But I'm willing to bet that OP hasn't ever sought out well-written self-indulgent prose, which he should. Not to say to only read that, but reading widely is important. Trying to understand why something like a style works or doesn't is going to be more insightful than solely following the contrarian impulse of pursuing the kind of style he supposedly loves but has seemingly never read (besides Hemingway, whom he does not love).
Poor OP is an amazing writer simply held back by the fact that Young Authors have infected him with their awful Current Prose! Poor guy!
Also, "terse" prose made me think of Tao Lin, but Idk if I would exactly call him "terse". Dry? I like him actually, but it's not exactly thrilling stuff.
Anonymous :
7 days ago :
No.11131
>>11143
>>11124
You might be the only person on the planet who doesn't think Tao is terse. I've taken the Wiktionary definition of "terse" and a random excerpt of Taipei, and superimposed the two. You may elaborate based on the presented texts.
>>11131
It's like this bait was made for me. But I'm willing to bet that OP hasn't ever sought out well-written self-indulgent prose, which he should. Not to say to only read that, but reading widely is important. Trying to understand why something like a style works or doesn't is going to be more insightful than solely following the contrarian impulse of pursuing the kind of style he supposedly loves but has seemingly never read (besides Hemingway, whom he does not love).
Poor OP is an amazing writer simply held back by the fact that Young Authors have infected him with their awful Current Prose! Poor guy!
Billy Gass: AKA the Gassman.
Anonymous :
7 days ago :
No.11143
>>11144
>>11143
I'm not familiar with Tao, but reading that makes me feel like I could be a writer too if that's all it takes lol.
>>11147>>11143
Well, I suppose I was thinking of terse a la OP like Hemingway, which is short and tight, but isn't almost monosyllabic and "diary"-like (which is what I meant by "dry"). Tao isn't even a diary, he's matter of fact journal like to me. I have read Bed and listened to the audiobook of Tai Pei. Hemingway is terse, but something like The Old Man and the Sea invokes an imaginative aspect that is revealed by the prose's style. Note, I haven't read The Old Man and the Sea in like 10 years or so. The most recent Hemingway I've read is maybe a quarter of The Sun Rises Also which I read because I was waiting around somewhere and it was what was there, so I had to let it go.
>>11124
Also, "terse" prose made me think of Tao Lin, but Idk if I would exactly call him "terse". Dry? I like him actually, but it's not exactly thrilling stuff.
You might be the only person on the planet who doesn't think Tao is terse. I've taken the Wiktionary definition of "terse" and a random excerpt of Taipei, and superimposed the two. You may elaborate based on the presented texts.
>>11131Billy Gass: AKA the Gassman.
It's like this bait was made for me. But I'm willing to bet that OP hasn't ever sought out well-written self-indulgent prose, which he should. Not to say to only read that, but reading widely is important. Trying to understand why something like a style works or doesn't is going to be more insightful than solely following the contrarian impulse of pursuing the kind of style he supposedly loves but has seemingly never read (besides Hemingway, whom he does not love).
Poor OP is an amazing writer simply held back by the fact that Young Authors have infected him with their awful Current Prose! Poor guy!
>>11143
>>11124
You might be the only person on the planet who doesn't think Tao is terse. I've taken the Wiktionary definition of "terse" and a random excerpt of Taipei, and superimposed the two. You may elaborate based on the presented texts.
>>11131
It's like this bait was made for me. But I'm willing to bet that OP hasn't ever sought out well-written self-indulgent prose, which he should. Not to say to only read that, but reading widely is important. Trying to understand why something like a style works or doesn't is going to be more insightful than solely following the contrarian impulse of pursuing the kind of style he supposedly loves but has seemingly never read (besides Hemingway, whom he does not love).
Poor OP is an amazing writer simply held back by the fact that Young Authors have infected him with their awful Current Prose! Poor guy!
I'm not familiar with Tao, but reading that makes me feel like I could be a writer too if that's all it takes lol.
Anonymous :
7 days ago :
No.11145
>>11182
>>11145
I want to write, but I'll never release anything because I hate myself too much and when I read over what I wrote it's jarring and unpleasant, like listening to yourself recorded in video or voice (which is why I never do those two either). So I get my release online under the comfort of anonymity where I can avoid the perceiving eye
Also I don't want to face the fact that I have nothing interesting or new to say and that I am nothing special, so it's better to leave it as a wistful "what if" than to know for certain.
Anonymous :
7 days ago :
No.11147
>>11153
>>11147
>did not reference the provided texts
You've flunked. You can try again for partial credit.
>>11143
>>11124
You might be the only person on the planet who doesn't think Tao is terse. I've taken the Wiktionary definition of "terse" and a random excerpt of Taipei, and superimposed the two. You may elaborate based on the presented texts.
>>11131
It's like this bait was made for me. But I'm willing to bet that OP hasn't ever sought out well-written self-indulgent prose, which he should. Not to say to only read that, but reading widely is important. Trying to understand why something like a style works or doesn't is going to be more insightful than solely following the contrarian impulse of pursuing the kind of style he supposedly loves but has seemingly never read (besides Hemingway, whom he does not love).
Poor OP is an amazing writer simply held back by the fact that Young Authors have infected him with their awful Current Prose! Poor guy!
Well, I suppose I was thinking of terse a la OP like Hemingway, which is short and tight, but isn't almost monosyllabic and "diary"-like (which is what I meant by "dry"). Tao isn't even a diary, he's matter of fact journal like to me. I have read Bed and listened to the audiobook of Tai Pei. Hemingway is terse, but something like The Old Man and the Sea invokes an imaginative aspect that is revealed by the prose's style. Note, I haven't read The Old Man and the Sea in like 10 years or so. The most recent Hemingway I've read is maybe a quarter of The Sun Rises Also which I read because I was waiting around somewhere and it was what was there, so I had to let it go.
like OP a la Hemingway
>One thing about Faulkner I like, apart from the simplicity, on the whole, of his life, was that he wrote on the bedroom walls. That seems to me the true mark of a writer.
>>11147
>>11143
Well, I suppose I was thinking of terse a la OP like Hemingway, which is short and tight, but isn't almost monosyllabic and "diary"-like (which is what I meant by "dry"). Tao isn't even a diary, he's matter of fact journal like to me. I have read Bed and listened to the audiobook of Tai Pei. Hemingway is terse, but something like The Old Man and the Sea invokes an imaginative aspect that is revealed by the prose's style. Note, I haven't read The Old Man and the Sea in like 10 years or so. The most recent Hemingway I've read is maybe a quarter of The Sun Rises Also which I read because I was waiting around somewhere and it was what was there, so I had to let it go.
>did not reference the provided texts
You've flunked. You can try again for partial credit.
Anonymous :
7 days ago :
No.11157
>>11162
>>11157
>walks into bar
>seems the whole bar is couples
>struck by feelings of alienation and fear
>okay just order a beer
>first sip of beer gives him the shits
>huffs his way to a stall
>bitterly wiping his ass listening to the muffled couples talk
>begins to fantasize about how he could ruin it
>how it will all inevitably be ruined
>how under their talk is something menacing
>each is either a villain or too pathetic to play the part
>he could dump his beer on someone's head
>he could slap a girl's ass
>this would reveal what they've all been hiding
>what they've been waiting for
>finally his ass is wiped clean
>bit of a hard-on
>fucking half-hour in there goddamn
>upon leaving the bathroom is struck by fear again
>someone drank his beer
>a look of contempt from a woman
>the backs of men all talking, all laughing
>he can hear his own heart
>why? why? why?
>huffs his way out of the bar
>trying not to cry
>10 minutes later someone else slaps your gf's ass
>you do nothing
>you leave
>this is the beginning of the lifelong resentment between you and your gf
something something the fascism of the heart
Imagine he walks in and slaps your gf's ass, what would you be able to do about it? Nothing.
Tersecels BTFO'd YET AGAIN by Gasschads.
>>11157
Imagine he walks in and slaps your gf's ass, what would you be able to do about it? Nothing.
Tersecels BTFO'd YET AGAIN by Gasschads.
>walks into bar
>seems the whole bar is couples
>struck by feelings of alienation and fear
>okay just order a beer
>first sip of beer gives him the shits
>huffs his way to a stall
>bitterly wiping his ass listening to the muffled couples talk
>begins to fantasize about how he could ruin it
>how it will all inevitably be ruined
>how under their talk is something menacing
>each is either a villain or too pathetic to play the part
>he could dump his beer on someone's head
>he could slap a girl's ass
>this would reveal what they've all been hiding
>what they've been waiting for
>finally his ass is wiped clean
>bit of a hard-on
>fucking half-hour in there goddamn
>upon leaving the bathroom is struck by fear again
>someone drank his beer
>a look of contempt from a woman
>the backs of men all talking, all laughing
>he can hear his own heart
>why? why? why?
>huffs his way out of the bar
>trying not to cry
>10 minutes later someone else slaps your gf's ass
>you do nothing
>you leave
>this is the beginning of the lifelong resentment between you and your gf
something something the fascism of the heart
OP where are you you little prick
Anonymous :
6 days ago :
No.11182
>>11183
>>11182
Most writing sucks but if *you* of all people think your writing sucks it most definitely does
>>11145
>>11144
Hey, then go ahead.
I want to write, but I'll never release anything because I hate myself too much and when I read over what I wrote it's jarring and unpleasant, like listening to yourself recorded in video or voice (which is why I never do those two either). So I get my release online under the comfort of anonymity where I can avoid the perceiving eye
Also I don't want to face the fact that I have nothing interesting or new to say and that I am nothing special, so it's better to leave it as a wistful "what if" than to know for certain.
>>11182
>>11145
I want to write, but I'll never release anything because I hate myself too much and when I read over what I wrote it's jarring and unpleasant, like listening to yourself recorded in video or voice (which is why I never do those two either). So I get my release online under the comfort of anonymity where I can avoid the perceiving eye
Also I don't want to face the fact that I have nothing interesting or new to say and that I am nothing special, so it's better to leave it as a wistful "what if" than to know for certain.
Most writing sucks but if *you* of all people think your writing sucks it most definitely does
Terse prose is garbage and is part of the "sound bite" culture of (post) modernism. Give me long, Kantian sentences with purple prose.
>>11107 (OP)
Raymond Carver, the GOAT of American short fiction.