/pt/ – Petrarchan

>>10813 >Comparing US, Australia, NZ to Israel yeah... nah. Just because Israeli's use the term 'settler' doesn't actually mean they are. That land actually has buildings and a people who aren't hunter gatherers there.

>>10833 Not really. Mark Twain's description: >Of all the lands there are for dismal scenery, I think Palestine must be the prince. The hills are barren, they are dull of color, they are unpicturesque in shape. The valleys are unsightly deserts fringed with a feeble vegetation that has an expression about it of being sorrowful and despondent. ... It is a hopeless, dreary, heart-broken land. > >Palestine sits in sackcloth and ashes. Over it broods the spell of a curse that has withered its fields and fettered its energies. ... Nazareth is forlorn; about that ford of Jordan where the hosts of Israel entered the Promised Land with songs of rejoicing, one finds only a squalid camp of fantastic Bedouins of the desert; Jericho the accursed, likes a moldering ruin, today, even as Joshua’s miracle left it more than three thousand years ago; Bethlehem and Bethany, in their poverty and their humiliation, have nothing about them now to remind one that they once knew the high honor of the Saviour’s presence; the hallowed spot where the shepherds watched their flocks by night, and where the angels sang Peace on earth, good will to men, is untenanted by any living creature, and unblessed by any feature that is pleasant to the eye. > >Renowned Jerusalem itself, the stateliest name in history, has lost all its ancient grandeur, and is become a pauper village, the riches of Solomon are no longer there to compel the admiration of visiting Oriental queens; the wonderful temple which was the pride and glory of Israel, is gone, and the Ottoman crescent is lifted above the spot where, on that most memorable day in the annals of the world, they reared the Holy Cross. > >The noted Sea of Galilee, where Roman fleets once rode at anchor and the disciples of the Saviour sailed in their ships, was long ago deserted by the devotees of war and commerce, and its borders are a silent wilderness; Capernaum is a shapeless ruin; Magdala is the home of beggared Arabs; Bethsaida and Chorazin have vanished from the earth, and the ‘desert places’ round about them where thousands of men once listened to the Saviour’s voice and ate the miraculous bread, sleep in the hush of a solitude that is inhabited only by birds of prey and skulking foxes. > >Palestine is desolate and unlovely. And why should it be otherwise? Can the curse of the Deity beautify a land?

>>10833 >>10847 My point wasn’t to debate whether or not Israeli actions are the same as the colonization of America/Australia. It was to point out that if you win, all history is forgiven. Look at Pakistan, a nation built to be the homeland for a religion which in its first act massacred and expelled most of its non-Muslims. No one cares, today Pakistan is an accepted member of the international community. Israel will be fine as long as it wins its conflicts, whether via diplomacy or force.

>>10845 >An arbitrary quote by mark twain 200 years ago that calls palestine a shithole No arguments. It's still a settled people, with buildings, culture, language, etc. The maori were literal stone-age cannibals. Hardly comparable. Similar things can be said about the nomadic american indians, no buildings...Just roaming from places based on season. Palestine is not being 'settled'. Jews want to lump it in with actual history of settlements where there were no roads, settlers built them. Israelis bomb them, leveling cities. It's not the same. If you can't see that then you're not arguing in good faith. With all that said. I don't agree with colonizing or settling (whether its europeans or not), but lets stop pretending thats what Israeli jews are doing.

You guys refuse to make a point without going to extremes. >>10845 The context of Twain's quote is the decay imposed by time, in the context of changing empires, not that the land was always barren or that it cannot support life. >>10847 The American Indians had various structures but most were made from materials other than stone, so they have not survived long. There are examples of permanent constructed buildings such as the Pueblo architecture in picrel, mounds in the Mississippi delta region, and that is not even mentioning the Aztecs, Maya and Olmec. Oh, who am I kidding, you are already angry and bigoted and are not looking for subtleties or curious discussion. You only express faint sympathy for the Palestinians by some roundabout rightoid logic of might and thrice-folded anti-semitism. This is all a waste of my time..

>>10833 >>10847 My point wasn’t to debate whether or not Israeli actions are the same as the colonization of America/Australia. It was to point out that if you win, all history is forgiven. Look at Pakistan, a nation built to be the homeland for a religion which in its first act massacred and expelled most of its non-Muslims. No one cares, today Pakistan is an accepted member of the international community. Israel will be fine as long as it wins its conflicts, whether via diplomacy or force.

You guys refuse to make a point without going to extremes. >>10845 The context of Twain's quote is the decay imposed by time, in the context of changing empires, not that the land was always barren or that it cannot support life. >>10847 The American Indians had various structures but most were made from materials other than stone, so they have not survived long. There are examples of permanent constructed buildings such as the Pueblo architecture in picrel, mounds in the Mississippi delta region, and that is not even mentioning the Aztecs, Maya and Olmec. Oh, who am I kidding, you are already angry and bigoted and are not looking for subtleties or curious discussion. You only express faint sympathy for the Palestinians by some roundabout rightoid logic of might and thrice-folded anti-semitism. This is all a waste of my time..

>>10861 Americans now see Israel as other Westerners have seen it since forever: as simply another Middle Eastern 'shithole'. We are far from Herzl's dream of Vienna-on-the-Red-Sea. If it were purely irreligious Ashkenazim, it could have been done, but the Stone Age-religious revival deeply rooted in Zionism ensured this was never to be. And there never was a 'golden age' either, it was like this from the start. This is what your life is like to be a cultured Israeli (it's even harder than life as an introverted African-American): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jascha_Heifetz#Third_Israel_tour >On his third tour to Israel in 1953, Heifetz included the Violin Sonata by Richard Strauss in his recitals. At the time, many considered Strauss and a number of other German intellectuals Nazis, or at least Nazi sympathizers, and Strauss works were unofficially banned in Israel along with those of Richard Wagner. Despite the fact that the Holocaust had occurred less than ten years earlier and a last-minute plea from Ben-Zion Dinur, the Israeli Minister of Education, the defiant Heifetz argued, "The music is above these factors... I will not change my program. I have the right to decide on my repertoire." In Haifa his performance of the Strauss sonata was greeted with applause, however in Tel Aviv it was followed by dead silence. >Heifetz was attacked after his recital in Jerusalem outside his hotel by a young man who struck Heifetz's violin case with a crowbar, prompting Heifetz to use his bow-controlling right hand to protect his priceless violins. The attacker escaped and was never found. The attack has since been attributed to the Kingdom of Israel militant group. >The incident made headlines and Heifetz defiantly announced that he would not stop playing the Strauss. Threats continued to come, however, and he omitted the Strauss from his next recital without explanation. His last concert was cancelled after his swollen right hand began to hurt. He left Israel and did not return until 1970. Nobody thinks of Pakistan as a 'normal' state, BTW. Third World countries exist purely to hold back first the Soviets, now China: but never for their own sake.

>>10861 >You only express faint sympathy for the Palestinians by some roundabout rightoid logic of might and thrice-folded anti-semitism. This is all a waste of my time.. You only express faint sympathy for the Jews by some roundabout leftoid logic of might and thrice-folded anti-whiteism. This is all of a waste of my time. Funny how this works.

>>10862 The creation of Israel came at the cost of every last thing that was admirable about Jewish culture.

>>10862 I don't know why you've tagged my post as nothing you said replies to what I posted. I find this /pol/-style analysis exhausting, always harshly judgemental with little benefit, always centered around ethnicity and nothing else. I wonder how you people navigate your daily lives under this suffocating paradigm, at the supermarket deciding if you should buy red bell peppers or green ones because the Jews like green ones more?

>>10865 I've never visited /pol/, and moreover I like--albeit to an extent--Israeli and that whole sort of Middle Eastern culture. The issue is that it's far from Western, and even white trash out in the boondocks have worked it out. NB the word 'shithole' was in quotation marks as a reference to Trump.

>>10869 Picrel is how Israel is depicted in the West now. "You people, you all look the same, you have been fighting forever, why do we care what you do to each another?"

>>10870 *Each other...

>>10908 I thought Jews weren't white? Wasn't that one of the cornerstones of your ideology? What twists will you people come up with next in order to own the libs?

>>10909 Jews are everything and nothing. Also what do you know about MY ideology? These assumptions are astounding, truly. >you people Who are 'my people'? You fancy me some retarded racist hick? And I'm suppose to assume you're a 'lib' with a nose ring? Please. Have good faith in a discussion or why even keep responding.