So, what's stopping you from being religious, anon?
Anonymous :
56 days ago :
№ 12089
>>12101
>>12089 (OP)
Nothing. I wish I could engage more fully in my religion (cradle Catholic) but you cant live a modern secular life AND have Eucharist etc.
There are a lot of incredible Catholic and Christian thinkers that I think atheists, especially young men, could enjoy reading regardless of faith status. Kierkegaard, Aquinas, St Theresa and Pascal are my favorites currently.
>>12113>>12089 (OP)
Truly, beyond anything else, it would require me to commit to something.
>>12155>>12089 (OP)
Everyone is religious. It is just a fact of humanity.
>>12164>>12089 (OP) I keep sleeping through church.
>>12345>>12089 (OP)
That it's the ultimate form of 'human exceptionalism' which I utterly despise.
Anonymous :
56 days ago :
№ 12101
>>12123
>>12101
>cradle catholic
I prefer the term Foundational Catholic American (FCA)
>>12163>>12101
>Nothing. I wish I could engage more fully in my religion (cradle Catholic) but you cant live a modern secular life AND have Eucharist etc.
Can you say more? Because I feel like you are contradicting yourself. "Nothing" is preventing you from being religious, but "modern secular life" prevents you from "having eucharist", by which I assume you mean you cannot fully believe in transubstantiation because you know that it violates the most basic of contemporary scientific assumptions. Not trying to be mean here, I'm serious.
>>12089 (OP)
Nothing. I wish I could engage more fully in my religion (cradle Catholic) but you cant live a modern secular life AND have Eucharist etc.
There are a lot of incredible Catholic and Christian thinkers that I think atheists, especially young men, could enjoy reading regardless of faith status. Kierkegaard, Aquinas, St Theresa and Pascal are my favorites currently.
Anonymous :
56 days ago :
№ 12102
>>12111
>>12102
>I plan on becoming religious soon.
This made me straight laugh out loud. Something so absurd about it. The phrasing maybe.
>>12171>>12102
I agree with the other anon that "I plan on becoming religious soon" is an amusing phrase, but one that I sympathize with.
>I find it very difficult to stick to my values in the present especially when surrounded by commonplace venial sins (gossiping, unfettered consumption) so I need to lock in and get better
You find it difficult to stick to your values because you fall into temptation?
Is "being religious" to you then a sort of simplicity and cohesion between thought and action?
I plan on becoming religious soon. not going to mainstream religion shop but going to read and think more on matters spiritual and moral to have a better understanding of my principles and then meditate daily (hopefully) to have these beliefs at the forefront of my mind as I go about the day. I find it very difficult to stick to my values in the present especially when surrounded by commonplace venial sins (gossiping, unfettered consumption) so I need to lock in and get better
Anonymous :
56 days ago :
№ 12108
>>12172
>>12108
1. What's obvious about it?
2. It's true (and interesting) that every mainstream, legalistic religion does require submission from women to men (mainly thinking of Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, and Confucianism here). Is there any reason to reject religious thought from more egalitarian groups? Quakers, etc. Also, what do you think of religious thought from women themselves? Just a historic lens foist upon them?
3. Your point is one of the things that I think makes "truly" believing in religion difficult these days. I don't think it's just the right-wing which thinks of religion in these terms, though you might say it's the right-wing which still holds onto the vestigial idea "belief" in spite of also using modernist, "scientific" claims about religion. On the other hand, other religious groups are expanding without any contradiction at all, in spite of the introduction of these claims or thought. Maybe it's because Christianity ("the West") has always had a bit of a weird relationship with politics and the control of people, whereas a group like Islam has no qualms about creating overarching, sociological narratives as long as you believe in a fairly basic theological claim.
1. I’m not going to believe in something that’s obviously not real
2. I’m not going to ‘submit to my husband in everything’ or otherwise treat myself as an inferior being based on my sex, because I don’t hate myself. Every religion in existence requires that of women
3. Religion as a self-help system and way to get the proles to produce more workers is the cringiest idea to come out of the right wing media ecosystem. Even when they speak about the benefits of religion, they use a purely psychotherapeutic (“it makes you feel better! It helps you stop doing drugs!”) or socioeconomic (“it builds Community! it raises birth rates!”) framing, which shows what their *actual* religion is. Metaphysical claims aren’t something that can be discarded. Most proponents of ‘religion’ in the abstract treat them like an optional addition to the ‘community’ and alleged psychological benefits it provides, which is ridiculous. In that case you can just join any club.
Anonymous :
56 days ago :
№ 12111
>>12120
>>12111
I knew it sounded ridiculous as I typed it. its like something someone in american psycho would say. LOL
>>12102
I plan on becoming religious soon. not going to mainstream religion shop but going to read and think more on matters spiritual and moral to have a better understanding of my principles and then meditate daily (hopefully) to have these beliefs at the forefront of my mind as I go about the day. I find it very difficult to stick to my values in the present especially when surrounded by commonplace venial sins (gossiping, unfettered consumption) so I need to lock in and get better
>I plan on becoming religious soon.
This made me straight laugh out loud. Something so absurd about it. The phrasing maybe.
Anonymous :
56 days ago :
№ 12113
>>12173
>>12113
You're committing to something if you choose not to commit to religion though, aren't you?
>>12089 (OP)
Truly, beyond anything else, it would require me to commit to something.
>>12101
>>12089 (OP)
Nothing. I wish I could engage more fully in my religion (cradle Catholic) but you cant live a modern secular life AND have Eucharist etc.
There are a lot of incredible Catholic and Christian thinkers that I think atheists, especially young men, could enjoy reading regardless of faith status. Kierkegaard, Aquinas, St Theresa and Pascal are my favorites currently.
>cradle catholic
I prefer the term Foundational Catholic American (FCA)
Anonymous :
56 days ago :
№ 12126
>>12128
>>12126
>I was going to be Christian to hate Muslims but then I realized I hate being told what to do
Most erudite, introspective rightoid
I have no spiritual basis from which to derive *any* religious system. I am a fully atheistic, aspiritual person. It would be stupid and Dawkins-esque to bloviate about how much I love cultural Christianity because I hate muslims, especially when I don't agree with almost any part of Christian doctrine or morality. I was raised in a nation where the first thing we are told is we're free to believe or say anything we want, and the first of God's laws is literally "don't believe anything else and don't talk shit about me." The list of stark differences between any religious system with a single god and the philosophy that guides me is VERY long.
Plus, if god is real, and he knows everyone's heart, would 't "cultural Christians" like Dawkins be sent to Hell for not believing anyway? So why pump god up and push for his fanbase when I will actively be tortured forever either way? And it would lead to more cruelty against the few people I give a shit about too.
Anonymous :
56 days ago :
№ 12128
>>12131
>>12128
I am explicitly saying that I disavow that mindset and cultural-Christian types. And yes, when the alleged all powerful creator of the universe wants you to mutilate your sons and hurt others for the sake of a stupid notion of morality that has no home in the land of the free, but in the kingdom of the enslaved.
>>12135>>12128
Most good-faith, earnest leftist
>>12126
I have no spiritual basis from which to derive *any* religious system. I am a fully atheistic, aspiritual person. It would be stupid and Dawkins-esque to bloviate about how much I love cultural Christianity because I hate muslims, especially when I don't agree with almost any part of Christian doctrine or morality. I was raised in a nation where the first thing we are told is we're free to believe or say anything we want, and the first of God's laws is literally "don't believe anything else and don't talk shit about me." The list of stark differences between any religious system with a single god and the philosophy that guides me is VERY long.
Plus, if god is real, and he knows everyone's heart, would 't "cultural Christians" like Dawkins be sent to Hell for not believing anyway? So why pump god up and push for his fanbase when I will actively be tortured forever either way? And it would lead to more cruelty against the few people I give a shit about too.
>I was going to be Christian to hate Muslims but then I realized I hate being told what to do
Most erudite, introspective rightoid
>>12128
>>12126
>I was going to be Christian to hate Muslims but then I realized I hate being told what to do
Most erudite, introspective rightoid
I am explicitly saying that I disavow that mindset and cultural-Christian types. And yes, when the alleged all powerful creator of the universe wants you to mutilate your sons and hurt others for the sake of a stupid notion of morality that has no home in the land of the free, but in the kingdom of the enslaved.
Ugh. I don't know what I expected to get from what I said but you two can just go ahead and fuck. I'm not going into leftoid vs. rightoid """discourse."""
Anonymous :
55 days ago :
№ 12155
>>12161
>>12155
>everyone KNOWS god exists, checkmate "atheists"
This convinces no one of anything
>>12089 (OP)
Everyone is religious. It is just a fact of humanity.
>>12155
>>12089 (OP)
Everyone is religious. It is just a fact of humanity.
>everyone KNOWS god exists, checkmate "atheists"
This convinces no one of anything
Anonymous :
55 days ago :
№ 12163
>>12182
>>12163
I was referring to not being in a state of grace, mostly bc premarital. You can’t date outside religious circles and avoid it really.
>>12101
>>12089 (OP)
Nothing. I wish I could engage more fully in my religion (cradle Catholic) but you cant live a modern secular life AND have Eucharist etc.
There are a lot of incredible Catholic and Christian thinkers that I think atheists, especially young men, could enjoy reading regardless of faith status. Kierkegaard, Aquinas, St Theresa and Pascal are my favorites currently.
>Nothing. I wish I could engage more fully in my religion (cradle Catholic) but you cant live a modern secular life AND have Eucharist etc.
Can you say more? Because I feel like you are contradicting yourself. "Nothing" is preventing you from being religious, but "modern secular life" prevents you from "having eucharist", by which I assume you mean you cannot fully believe in transubstantiation because you know that it violates the most basic of contemporary scientific assumptions. Not trying to be mean here, I'm serious.
>>12089 (OP) I keep sleeping through church.
Godless communist raised by godless communists. I have played around with Chinese Zen and Daoism, but metaphysical claims mostly make my skin crawl.
>>12102
I plan on becoming religious soon. not going to mainstream religion shop but going to read and think more on matters spiritual and moral to have a better understanding of my principles and then meditate daily (hopefully) to have these beliefs at the forefront of my mind as I go about the day. I find it very difficult to stick to my values in the present especially when surrounded by commonplace venial sins (gossiping, unfettered consumption) so I need to lock in and get better
I agree with the other anon that "I plan on becoming religious soon" is an amusing phrase, but one that I sympathize with.
>I find it very difficult to stick to my values in the present especially when surrounded by commonplace venial sins (gossiping, unfettered consumption) so I need to lock in and get better
You find it difficult to stick to your values because you fall into temptation?
Is "being religious" to you then a sort of simplicity and cohesion between thought and action?
>>12108
1. I’m not going to believe in something that’s obviously not real
2. I’m not going to ‘submit to my husband in everything’ or otherwise treat myself as an inferior being based on my sex, because I don’t hate myself. Every religion in existence requires that of women
3. Religion as a self-help system and way to get the proles to produce more workers is the cringiest idea to come out of the right wing media ecosystem. Even when they speak about the benefits of religion, they use a purely psychotherapeutic (“it makes you feel better! It helps you stop doing drugs!”) or socioeconomic (“it builds Community! it raises birth rates!”) framing, which shows what their *actual* religion is. Metaphysical claims aren’t something that can be discarded. Most proponents of ‘religion’ in the abstract treat them like an optional addition to the ‘community’ and alleged psychological benefits it provides, which is ridiculous. In that case you can just join any club.
1. What's obvious about it?
2. It's true (and interesting) that every mainstream, legalistic religion does require submission from women to men (mainly thinking of Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, and Confucianism here). Is there any reason to reject religious thought from more egalitarian groups? Quakers, etc. Also, what do you think of religious thought from women themselves? Just a historic lens foist upon them?
3. Your point is one of the things that I think makes "truly" believing in religion difficult these days. I don't think it's just the right-wing which thinks of religion in these terms, though you might say it's the right-wing which still holds onto the vestigial idea "belief" in spite of also using modernist, "scientific" claims about religion. On the other hand, other religious groups are expanding without any contradiction at all, in spite of the introduction of these claims or thought. Maybe it's because Christianity ("the West") has always had a bit of a weird relationship with politics and the control of people, whereas a group like Islam has no qualms about creating overarching, sociological narratives as long as you believe in a fairly basic theological claim.
Anonymous :
55 days ago :
№ 12173
>>12175
>>12173
You mean to say... If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice??
>>12113
>>12089 (OP)
Truly, beyond anything else, it would require me to commit to something.
You're committing to something if you choose not to commit to religion though, aren't you?
>>12171
>>12102
I agree with the other anon that "I plan on becoming religious soon" is an amusing phrase, but one that I sympathize with.
>I find it very difficult to stick to my values in the present especially when surrounded by commonplace venial sins (gossiping, unfettered consumption) so I need to lock in and get better
You find it difficult to stick to your values because you fall into temptation?
Is "being religious" to you then a sort of simplicity and cohesion between thought and action?
yes and yes
Anonymous :
55 days ago :
№ 12182
>>12200
>>12182
Opening up sex beyond the sacred confines of marriage (well, at least in a way "de jure", practically speaking affairs were basically an open secret depending on your time and social rank) really put the final nail in the coffin. Do you "want" to live in a state of grace?
>>12163
>>12101
>Nothing. I wish I could engage more fully in my religion (cradle Catholic) but you cant live a modern secular life AND have Eucharist etc.
Can you say more? Because I feel like you are contradicting yourself. "Nothing" is preventing you from being religious, but "modern secular life" prevents you from "having eucharist", by which I assume you mean you cannot fully believe in transubstantiation because you know that it violates the most basic of contemporary scientific assumptions. Not trying to be mean here, I'm serious.
I was referring to not being in a state of grace, mostly bc premarital. You can’t date outside religious circles and avoid it really.
Anonymous :
54 days ago :
№ 12200
>>12214
>>12200
I can't imagine believing in the concept of a state of grace and not wanting to be in it. I had a period not long ago where I was regularly making confession and was on good behavior and it does bring a serenity to your life. I suppose I hope that I can get married and make confession before I die which is admittedly a bad way to go about things. I try to live virtuously in my day-to-day at least.
A quote from St. Theresa on souls in mortal sin:
While the soul is in mortal sin nothing can profit it; none of its good works merit an eternal reward, since they do not proceed from God as their first principle, and by Him alone is our virtue real virtue. The soul separated from Him is no longer pleasing in His eyes, because by committing a mortal sin, instead of seeking to please God, it prefers to gratify the devil, the prince of darkness, and so comes to share his blackness.
>>12216>>12200
Let's be so extremely for fr right now, anon. Marriage was just a route by which to introduce POWs in tribal genocides to your harem. There's nothing, not one thing, sacred about it. Nearly every prophet and saint had a harem of wives, many attained through war.
>>12341>>12200
Marriage isn't sacred. Even the RCC didn't consider it a sacrament until the 12th century, contra the claims on their supposed unchanging teachings spread by online tradcaths.
All the creepy rituals around marriage common across cultures, like the fixation on the bride's hymen, showing off the bloodied sheets (despite the widespread belief that it denotes the 'hymen breaking' it's actually a sign of injury caused by violent intercourse without sufficient arousal - how romantic) indicate what marriage is actually about - ensuring a man has exclusive sexual access to a woman so his paternity is relatively certain. Is that sacred? I would not say so.
The immorality of premarital (and even adultery) is a moot point in the age of effective contraception.
>>12182
>>12163
I was referring to not being in a state of grace, mostly bc premarital. You can’t date outside religious circles and avoid it really.
Opening up sex beyond the sacred confines of marriage (well, at least in a way "de jure", practically speaking affairs were basically an open secret depending on your time and social rank) really put the final nail in the coffin. Do you "want" to live in a state of grace?
I have a leanings, always had interest in religion, mythologies, etcetera but I am simply not, and this fact saddens me immensely. I am envious of people who have natural ability to wholeheartedly embrace any sort of mysticism, even something like Tarot or astrology. The way I see it you cannot persuade or reason yourself into earnest belief. Either you're in some way born into it, or some particularly meaningful experience has coerced you. I was born into largely materialist tradition, and am myself extremely skeptical and downright unbelieving. The best I can do is to cautiously embrace symmbolism that sometimes presents itself in this life. I wish I was the seer type, but I feel like I will never cross this threshold and I'm impoverished by that fact.
>>12200
>>12182
Opening up sex beyond the sacred confines of marriage (well, at least in a way "de jure", practically speaking affairs were basically an open secret depending on your time and social rank) really put the final nail in the coffin. Do you "want" to live in a state of grace?
I can't imagine believing in the concept of a state of grace and not wanting to be in it. I had a period not long ago where I was regularly making confession and was on good behavior and it does bring a serenity to your life. I suppose I hope that I can get married and make confession before I die which is admittedly a bad way to go about things. I try to live virtuously in my day-to-day at least.
A quote from St. Theresa on souls in mortal sin:
While the soul is in mortal sin nothing can profit it; none of its good works merit an eternal reward, since they do not proceed from God as their first principle, and by Him alone is our virtue real virtue. The soul separated from Him is no longer pleasing in His eyes, because by committing a mortal sin, instead of seeking to please God, it prefers to gratify the devil, the prince of darkness, and so comes to share his blackness.
>>12200
>>12182
Opening up sex beyond the sacred confines of marriage (well, at least in a way "de jure", practically speaking affairs were basically an open secret depending on your time and social rank) really put the final nail in the coffin. Do you "want" to live in a state of grace?
Let's be so extremely for fr right now, anon. Marriage was just a route by which to introduce POWs in tribal genocides to your harem. There's nothing, not one thing, sacred about it. Nearly every prophet and saint had a harem of wives, many attained through war.
Anonymous :
52 days ago :
№ 12275
>>13010
>>12275
I'm saying that's why I'm not religious though. I also believe in too many heresies
>>12226
I feel too loved to worry about specifics. I'm confident I came from a better place and am going to a better one
I don't want to stop living to be honest. At least you're honest that it's based on feeling.
Anonymous :
52 days ago :
№ 12280
>>12287
>>12280
I would love to do that actually. “If you wanted genuine love, you shouldn’t have coerced it with the threat of Hell”
>>12288>>12280
If doing the pascal's wager gets you to god's kingdom then we know for a fact that god is jewish
>>12289>>12280
It's a stupid wager. So many religions, all equally unlikely, all so punishing. Any tri-omni god would not fall for a selfish mortal's wager based trickery.
Imagine explaining to God that you were doing pascal's wager
Anonymous :
52 days ago :
№ 12289
>>12290
>>12289
this is why I like greek mythology. they (iirc) don't claim that gods are all knowing and morally perfect. greek gods are like humans with superpowers. when you pray you're hoping they like you and confer your wish, no question of if your wish is good LOL
>>12280
Imagine explaining to God that you were doing pascal's wager
It's a stupid wager. So many religions, all equally unlikely, all so punishing. Any tri-omni god would not fall for a selfish mortal's wager based trickery.
Anonymous :
52 days ago :
№ 12290
>>12291
>>12290
Also gods' contest each other all the time. Following the commands of one god can get you in trouble with another. What's a mere mortal to do? A descriptive religion rather than prescriptive.
>>12289
>>12280
It's a stupid wager. So many religions, all equally unlikely, all so punishing. Any tri-omni god would not fall for a selfish mortal's wager based trickery.
this is why I like greek mythology. they (iirc) don't claim that gods are all knowing and morally perfect. greek gods are like humans with superpowers. when you pray you're hoping they like you and confer your wish, no question of if your wish is good LOL
>>12290
>>12289
this is why I like greek mythology. they (iirc) don't claim that gods are all knowing and morally perfect. greek gods are like humans with superpowers. when you pray you're hoping they like you and confer your wish, no question of if your wish is good LOL
Also gods' contest each other all the time. Following the commands of one god can get you in trouble with another. What's a mere mortal to do? A descriptive religion rather than prescriptive.
I wish I could believe in God. My mind is stuck on being agnostic.
Anonymous :
51 days ago :
№ 12315
>>12363
>>12315
Sorry, I guess cringe isn't the right word. I think its the fact that I know I would be larping if I went to church. It wouldn't be a sincere practice.
>>12306
I enjoy reading Chesterton, but could never actually join a church. Its too cringe.
What's cringe about it?
God as in the omnipotent Abrahamic God? I'm gonna be honest man that really hard for me to believe in, reality seems far too skewed towards evil for me to think there's an overwhelming force of unstoppable good. I think most Christians are better people than most atheist or spiritual people though. Islam is retard shit and Judaism is a weird occult group skinwalking a dead religion.
As for gods in the sense of folk religion gods or heathen gods? I think they represent psychological constructs more than anything and are in a way real.
Anonymous :
50 days ago :
№ 12341
>>12927
>>12341
Some of the dumbest shit I’ve ever read on this site.
>>12200
>>12182
Opening up sex beyond the sacred confines of marriage (well, at least in a way "de jure", practically speaking affairs were basically an open secret depending on your time and social rank) really put the final nail in the coffin. Do you "want" to live in a state of grace?
Marriage isn't sacred. Even the RCC didn't consider it a sacrament until the 12th century, contra the claims on their supposed unchanging teachings spread by online tradcaths.
All the creepy rituals around marriage common across cultures, like the fixation on the bride's hymen, showing off the bloodied sheets (despite the widespread belief that it denotes the 'hymen breaking' it's actually a sign of injury caused by violent intercourse without sufficient arousal - how romantic) indicate what marriage is actually about - ensuring a man has exclusive sexual access to a woman so his paternity is relatively certain. Is that sacred? I would not say so.
The immorality of premarital (and even adultery) is a moot point in the age of effective contraception.
>>12089 (OP)
That it's the ultimate form of 'human exceptionalism' which I utterly despise.
my family are religious but I recognize that state as having very little to do with the truth value of the claim regarding the existence of god. it seems genuinely absurd to see any sort of unique transcendental value to the conception of the christian god after having studied the traditions it's tenets are stolen wholecloth from: platonism, semitic polytheism, atenism etc. likewise, the traditional arguments for the existence of god sneak in many dishonest premises. for example, one may accept a divine first mover or first cause, but there is very little reason to connect this with a particular semitic storm god, or it's abstracted descendant
I do recognize that being religious may be pragmatic or personally expedient in terms of mental health and social/community connection, but it's just simply not true. the beliefs don't correspond to any true reality
Anonymous :
50 days ago :
№ 12363
>>12923
>>12363
Pascal says to do it anyway, even if it feels like larping, and maybe you'll glean the "wisdom" or power behind the pursuit, even if the enlightenment of faith never deigns upon you. I think probably most people going to church fall in that camp... They kind of vaguely believe in a God, though they let the priestly caste do all that theology stuff, and enjoy the singing, mingling, and eating of Sunday snacks after service.
Anonymous :
40 days ago :
№ 12923
>>13028
>>12923
Pascal's wager is retarded and stupid. It's so dumb that the AI tech bros made their own version where they intellectually masturbate themselves.
>>12363
>>12315
Sorry, I guess cringe isn't the right word. I think its the fact that I know I would be larping if I went to church. It wouldn't be a sincere practice.
Pascal says to do it anyway, even if it feels like larping, and maybe you'll glean the "wisdom" or power behind the pursuit, even if the enlightenment of faith never deigns upon you. I think probably most people going to church fall in that camp... They kind of vaguely believe in a God, though they let the priestly caste do all that theology stuff, and enjoy the singing, mingling, and eating of Sunday snacks after service.
Anonymous :
40 days ago :
№ 12927
>>12935
>>12927
Cope tradtard, marriage is an increasingly irrelevant institution in the modern day and it certainly isn’t ‘sacred’.
>>12341
>>12200
Marriage isn't sacred. Even the RCC didn't consider it a sacrament until the 12th century, contra the claims on their supposed unchanging teachings spread by online tradcaths.
All the creepy rituals around marriage common across cultures, like the fixation on the bride's hymen, showing off the bloodied sheets (despite the widespread belief that it denotes the 'hymen breaking' it's actually a sign of injury caused by violent intercourse without sufficient arousal - how romantic) indicate what marriage is actually about - ensuring a man has exclusive sexual access to a woman so his paternity is relatively certain. Is that sacred? I would not say so.
The immorality of premarital (and even adultery) is a moot point in the age of effective contraception.
Some of the dumbest shit I’ve ever read on this site.
Anonymous :
39 days ago :
№ 12979
>>12999
>>12979
>the total non-existence of historical accounts of said events beyond the texts within the New Testament is proof enough to me
Testimonium Flavianum
>And those that actually FOLLOW Christ's teachings and philosophy
T.
I do not believe in one singular god, but instead numerous celestial beings that are responsible for influencing (not creating) Earth and its various flora and fauna. I believe that evolution took place, but that it was also partly influenced by said celestial beings. I do not give them names, beyond the one whom influenced human life "Mother".
As for religion, I used to be a (very non-committed) Christian but came to the personal realization that the Bible is riddled with logical and historical inconsistencies that NO omnipotent creator-of-all would have put in his holy texts. Was there a Jewish man named Jesus in 1st century Judea? Sure. Was he resurrected from the dead, or could turn water to wine? I do not believe so, and the total non-existence of historical accounts of said events beyond the texts within the New Testament is proof enough to me.
However, I have much more respect for the sects that take the Bible as what it truly is: a collection of religious texts written by numerous people in various genres across a time period of 900~ years. And those that actually FOLLOW Christ's teachings and philosophy.
Anonymous :
38 days ago :
№ 12999
>>13003
>>12999
>Testomonium Flavianum
Was written some 60 years after the historical Jesus would have been crucified, so not exactly contemporary. I should've better clarified what I meant.
>About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he was one who performed surprising deeds and was a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. He was the Messiah. And when, upon the accusation of the principal men among us, Pilate had condemned him to a cross, those who had first come to love him did not cease. He appeared to them spending a third day restored to life, for the prophets of God had foretold these things and a thousand other marvels about him. And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still to this day not disappeared.
I believe this to be partly doctored, as some parts within (e.g. "He was the Messiah." and "He appeared to them spending a third day restored to life") do not match the rest of the text's style.
>>12979
I do not believe in one singular god, but instead numerous celestial beings that are responsible for influencing (not creating) Earth and its various flora and fauna. I believe that evolution took place, but that it was also partly influenced by said celestial beings. I do not give them names, beyond the one whom influenced human life "Mother".
As for religion, I used to be a (very non-committed) Christian but came to the personal realization that the Bible is riddled with logical and historical inconsistencies that NO omnipotent creator-of-all would have put in his holy texts. Was there a Jewish man named Jesus in 1st century Judea? Sure. Was he resurrected from the dead, or could turn water to wine? I do not believe so, and the total non-existence of historical accounts of said events beyond the texts within the New Testament is proof enough to me.
However, I have much more respect for the sects that take the Bible as what it truly is: a collection of religious texts written by numerous people in various genres across a time period of 900~ years. And those that actually FOLLOW Christ's teachings and philosophy.
>the total non-existence of historical accounts of said events beyond the texts within the New Testament is proof enough to me
Testimonium Flavianum
>And those that actually FOLLOW Christ's teachings and philosophy
T.
>>12999
>>12979
>the total non-existence of historical accounts of said events beyond the texts within the New Testament is proof enough to me
Testimonium Flavianum
>And those that actually FOLLOW Christ's teachings and philosophy
T.
>Testomonium Flavianum
Was written some 60 years after the historical Jesus would have been crucified, so not exactly contemporary. I should've better clarified what I meant.
>About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he was one who performed surprising deeds and was a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. He was the Messiah. And when, upon the accusation of the principal men among us, Pilate had condemned him to a cross, those who had first come to love him did not cease. He appeared to them spending a third day restored to life, for the prophets of God had foretold these things and a thousand other marvels about him. And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still to this day not disappeared.
I believe this to be partly doctored, as some parts within (e.g. "He was the Messiah." and "He appeared to them spending a third day restored to life") do not match the rest of the text's style.
I was just born with a naturally skeptical temperament, the arguments in favor of religions aren't convincing (though I don't think they're without merit), and I have no experience I would consider of supernatural provenance.
I think the latter point is most important from my point of view; I would need to have an experience I cannot explain in materialist or scientific terms that also points toward a specific doctrine in order to embrace religion.
Anonymous :
36 days ago :
№ 13028
>>13029
>>13028
The thing about the Pascal's wager argument is that it can be made with basically equal credibility for literally any claim in the world.
You must be Christian. This is because the incomprehensible superbeing that controls the universe is, through the mysteries of the Trinity, consubstantial with Christ, and will punish you in hellfire for eternity if you don't.
You must try and build AGI. This is because the incomprehensible superbeing that will control the universe in the future is an AGI and will punish you in hellfire for eternity if you don't.
You must support land value tax. This is because the incomprehensible superbeing that controls the universe is a big fan of Henry George and will punish you in hellfire for eternity if you don't.
You must eat pierogi. This is because the incomprehensible superbeing that controls the universe is polish and will punish you in hellfire for eternity if you don't.
In any case it involves making reasonable claims about an entity that is by definition beyond human comprehension. But for some reason the Basilisk is considered rational, I guess because it uses ridiculous lesswrong jargon like 'acausal trading' and '10^^^^^10 brain simulations' and was invented by a twitter racist.
>>12923
>>12363
Pascal says to do it anyway, even if it feels like larping, and maybe you'll glean the "wisdom" or power behind the pursuit, even if the enlightenment of faith never deigns upon you. I think probably most people going to church fall in that camp... They kind of vaguely believe in a God, though they let the priestly caste do all that theology stuff, and enjoy the singing, mingling, and eating of Sunday snacks after service.
Pascal's wager is retarded and stupid. It's so dumb that the AI tech bros made their own version where they intellectually masturbate themselves.
Anonymous :
36 days ago :
№ 13029
>>13031
>>13029
Incomprehensible superbeing that sends you to heaven if you fucked a giraffe.
"Why do you think I gave them those long necks and huge tongues? I even placed them next to where you guys started, man. I swear..."
>>13028
>>12923
Pascal's wager is retarded and stupid. It's so dumb that the AI tech bros made their own version where they intellectually masturbate themselves.
The thing about the Pascal's wager argument is that it can be made with basically equal credibility for literally any claim in the world.
You must be Christian. This is because the incomprehensible superbeing that controls the universe is, through the mysteries of the Trinity, consubstantial with Christ, and will punish you in hellfire for eternity if you don't.
You must try and build AGI. This is because the incomprehensible superbeing that will control the universe in the future is an AGI and will punish you in hellfire for eternity if you don't.
You must support land value tax. This is because the incomprehensible superbeing that controls the universe is a big fan of Henry George and will punish you in hellfire for eternity if you don't.
You must eat pierogi. This is because the incomprehensible superbeing that controls the universe is polish and will punish you in hellfire for eternity if you don't.
In any case it involves making reasonable claims about an entity that is by definition beyond human comprehension. But for some reason the Basilisk is considered rational, I guess because it uses ridiculous lesswrong jargon like 'acausal trading' and '10^^^^^10 brain simulations' and was invented by a twitter racist.
The very idea of a god shaped in man's image has always been arrogant to me. After all, if man was shaped in God's image, then Man is a reflection of God. Thus, we are so much more better and exceptional than anything else in this world. SAD!
The most mature emotion is neither happiness nor anger. It is disappointment. Only with it, can one truly become an adult. For the child realizes that the world is not catered towards them, that the world does not care about what they want. Only then they can mature.
I suppose that's why I dislike, or in some cases outright despise, religion. It's immature.
>>13029
>>13028
The thing about the Pascal's wager argument is that it can be made with basically equal credibility for literally any claim in the world.
You must be Christian. This is because the incomprehensible superbeing that controls the universe is, through the mysteries of the Trinity, consubstantial with Christ, and will punish you in hellfire for eternity if you don't.
You must try and build AGI. This is because the incomprehensible superbeing that will control the universe in the future is an AGI and will punish you in hellfire for eternity if you don't.
You must support land value tax. This is because the incomprehensible superbeing that controls the universe is a big fan of Henry George and will punish you in hellfire for eternity if you don't.
You must eat pierogi. This is because the incomprehensible superbeing that controls the universe is polish and will punish you in hellfire for eternity if you don't.
In any case it involves making reasonable claims about an entity that is by definition beyond human comprehension. But for some reason the Basilisk is considered rational, I guess because it uses ridiculous lesswrong jargon like 'acausal trading' and '10^^^^^10 brain simulations' and was invented by a twitter racist.
Incomprehensible superbeing that sends you to heaven if you fucked a giraffe.
"Why do you think I gave them those long necks and huge tongues? I even placed them next to where you guys started, man. I swear..."
Anonymous :
36 days ago :
№ 13034
>>13037
>>13034
I like it the most out of any other abrahamic story to be honest, hell even the less-complex and more bland Islamic version is fucking hilarious. (The translation of that sunah I read called job a slave, and I couldn't get my mind to stop thinking of allah as the Leonardo Di Caprio slave master)
Job's honestly right to be pissed. His life was ruined. His kids murdered in front of him, his wife leaving him, his health withering away, his wealth lost...all for a bet? An all wise, all loving god ruined a man's life just to prove a point? That's not how a mature person, let alone an "infinitely wise" one should act. God could have just ignored Satan but this loser who wants to dictate that you can't eat that or wear that to ants fell for it. So what does he do towards Job? Just fucking flexes and says "suck it man". It's pascal's FUCKING wager again. Sure job gets his wife back, (but doesnt get his kids back in the christian version), and his money back but like...he was still tortured for no reason other than a bet?
The Islamic version is even funnier because when his wife leaves him, he yells at her that he's going to beat her ass for disrespecting god. While bedridden. After job gets his stuff back, Allah says to job to go "honor" what he said when he didn't want to actually beat his wife. Dude grabbed grasses and beat his wife with it. Allah said "Now listen here, my slave. You disobey me again, and I'll show you true Gehenna. Now go on and put me a show." Incel religion.
>>13030
The very idea of a god shaped in man's image has always been arrogant to me. After all, if man was shaped in God's image, then Man is a reflection of God. Thus, we are so much more better and exceptional than anything else in this world. SAD!
The most mature emotion is neither happiness nor anger. It is disappointment. Only with it, can one truly become an adult. For the child realizes that the world is not catered towards them, that the world does not care about what they want. Only then they can mature.
I suppose that's why I dislike, or in some cases outright despise, religion. It's immature.
What do you think of Job?
>>13034
>>13030
What do you think of Job?
I like it the most out of any other abrahamic story to be honest, hell even the less-complex and more bland Islamic version is fucking hilarious. (The translation of that sunah I read called job a slave, and I couldn't get my mind to stop thinking of allah as the Leonardo Di Caprio slave master)
Job's honestly right to be pissed. His life was ruined. His kids murdered in front of him, his wife leaving him, his health withering away, his wealth lost...all for a bet? An all wise, all loving god ruined a man's life just to prove a point? That's not how a mature person, let alone an "infinitely wise" one should act. God could have just ignored Satan but this loser who wants to dictate that you can't eat that or wear that to ants fell for it. So what does he do towards Job? Just fucking flexes and says "suck it man". It's pascal's FUCKING wager again. Sure job gets his wife back, (but doesnt get his kids back in the christian version), and his money back but like...he was still tortured for no reason other than a bet?
The Islamic version is even funnier because when his wife leaves him, he yells at her that he's going to beat her ass for disrespecting god. While bedridden. After job gets his stuff back, Allah says to job to go "honor" what he said when he didn't want to actually beat his wife. Dude grabbed grasses and beat his wife with it. Allah said "Now listen here, my slave. You disobey me again, and I'll show you true Gehenna. Now go on and put me a show." Incel religion.
He would know that my faith isn't genuine so I'm hellbound regardless
>12108
>based on my se-
You will never be a real woman. ps: read John and Mathew
Cope ‘roon